Talking to a 2x2 about The Sabbath

My question to Brandon Miller

Do you keep the sabbath?

My goal here is to get him writing. Here's what I know at this point:

  1. He's trying to impress a Christian woman
  2. Guys say and do stupid things to impress women
  3. He's breaking a big 2x2 "unspoken rule". Don't ever put your beliefs in writing!
  4. He's breaking the rule of putting stuff in writing because he wants to impress the Christian woman
  5. The Christian woman has told me he's in the 2x2 cult in Texas
  6. Since he's in the cult, and loves the cult, I know he doesn't love God and is very ignorant of the Bible
  7. He's going to try to prove how knowledgeable he is to this Christian woman. So he's going to write a lot.
  8. It's bad for a fool to open their mouth. Everybody is going to see their foolishness.
  9. Workers quit talking when they find out someone believes in the Bible. They know that even a fool is thought wise when he doesn't speak.
  10. I know that Brandon is intellectually capable, so at some point he's going to quit writing because he will realize he's revealed his foolishness.
  11. I highly suspect he is going to give me lies as excuses to not write instead of admitting his faults.
  12. I highly suspect I can call him on his lies
  13. I highly suspect he is going to contradict himself a lot because he is really, really proud and very foolish.
  14. I highly suspect he is going to fall hard, because he has made outrageous claims and lies
  15. I highly suspect he is going to get incredibly frustrated because he doesn't understand the Bible, God or sound reasoning.
  16. I don't believe he will be able to convince the Christian woman of his wisdom through reasoning without getting her to believe in lies.
  17. He is going to realize he made a huge mistake in documenting his beliefs.
  18. Since he has put his words in writing, I can show to people that I was not "mistaken" or that I "misinterpreted" or "twisted" what he said.

Brandon Miller's reply to me:

I suppose you're referring to Saturday, which I do not observe like the Jewish people did before the resurrection of Jesus.

I observe Sunday as the day of rest, not out of commandment, but out of respect for God choosing to raise his Son on that day, the Pentecost happening then, and other wonderful things we read about happening on that day. I think the Bible in the King James Version refers to Sunday as "The Lord's Day."

Also, the sabbath was given in the Law to the Jews, if I'm not mistaken, written in one of the ten commandments. Since Jesus fulfilled the law and we are not under the old law, I choose to spend Sunday as the day of rest.

I hope that helps you understand a bit better.

My comments on Brandon's reply

  1. Why doesn't Brandon just say "no" since he doesn't keep the sabbath?
  2. Please read about the sabbath day first.
  3. The Jewish people kept it after the resurrection of Jesus because it was a perpetual commandment (forever) with the Jews. See sabbath day. The idea that Jews were only to keep the sabbath before the resurrection is a lie. The sabbath was a perpetual covenant with the Jews according to God.
  4. Brandon claims that he observes Sunday as the day of rest. This is a lie. Brandon does servile work on Sunday, the first day of the week.
  5. Brandon says he does it out of respect. That is a lie too. You don't do something against the commandments of God and call it "respect".
  6. He seems to justify his choice of Sunday by insinuating it is OK to choose Sunday instead of the last day of the week (Saturday) because he seems to believe that Jesus was resurrected that day. This is a lie.
  7. When was Jesus resurrected? Before Sunday even arrived. Jesus was already resurrected BEFORE Sunday AM according to the Bible. The Bible tells us that AFTER the sabbath was past, then "Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome came to find Jesus, but Jesus was ALREADY resurrected before Sunday morning. On Sunday morning, they would not have witnessed the resurrection. The women only saw the angels who told them that Jesus HAD already been resurrected. In fact, Mary Magdalene, came to the sepulchre while it was still dark, even before Sunday morning and said "They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him."
    Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
    Joh 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
  8. The reason why the disciples were not there when Jesus was resurrected, was because they were obeying God and resting on the sabbath.
    Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
  9. Nothing about the day of Pentecost says you should not keep the sabbath. This idea is a lie.
  10. God did not decide at Pentecost to give people a choice of which day to rest on. This shows how Brandon is easily deceived by the workers because he does not search the scripture to see if he is being lied to by the workers and overseers.
  11. In Acts 2, the day of rest was not changed from Saturday to Sunday as someone who might read Brandon's reply may deduce.
  12. No matter how many wonderful things happened at Pentecost, it doesn't mean that the sabbath shouldn't be kept. This is a lie.
  13. It is a lie that Sunday is the Lord's day. Rev 1:10 It is not in the KJV or any Bible referring to Sunday as the Lord's Day.
  14. The sabbath was not given in the Law to the Jews. It was given immediately after creation, see Gen 2:3.
    It was given to everybody to keep before Noah, Abraham, Isaac or Jacob were even born. That was way before the exodus of the children of Israel from Egypt. It was way before the Ten Commandments or the Law.
  15. The sabbath was not given in the ten commandments. This is a lie. The Jews were reminded to keep the sabbath in the ten commandments. It was not a new commandment, it was a reminder of the previous commandment from immediately after the creation. Read:
    Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
    As you can see, God said "REMEMBER the sabbath day...and rested the SEVENTH day"
  16. Since Jesus fulfilled the law, Brandon is not free to choose any day as the day of rest. This is a lie. Just because Jesus fulfilled the law, I am not free to do whatever I want. This idea is a lie.
  17. Then he says that because "we are not under the old law, I choose...". (See my next question to Brandon about this)
  18. Am I saying that a person is justified to Salvation by keeping the Sabbath? No. Absolutely not. We are not saved by works (of the law). We can only be justified by Faith in Christ. And no one who has faith in Christ is going to despise the commandments of the LORD. My point is that we are justified by faith in God, not by self-justification and willfully living in sin. What I am saying, is that a person who loves God keeps God's commandments, and it's not grievous for them to do so.
    Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
  19. "I hope that helps you understand..." It doesn't help me believe a lie, but it sure does help me understand his reasoning and beliefs. It confirms what I already believed from what others have told me about his behavior: he believes in a lot of lies.
  20. Brandon's puts in writing that he is living in sin (breaking the commandments of God) and by his spirit, we can see he doesn't care. Read the definition of sin. Read about what the judgment day will be for people who choose to live in sin (below).

A Fearful Looking Forward to the Judgment Day

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

My question to Brandon Miller

You wrote "Since Jesus fulfilled the law and we are not under the old law...."

Can you please clarify or help me understand what you mean by "old law" (as I cannot find those two words together in KJV you mentioned)

In fact, if you have scripture for this, that would be most helpful. Or if it's not in scripture, would you mind sharing where you heard this or how you came to believe this?

Reasons to ask this question

  1. I can tell that Brandon does not understand the concept of the law Paul is refering to when Brandon uses the phrase "old law".
  2. I know for a fact that there is no reference to "old law" in the whole Bible.
  3. I know Paul is writing something very specific when he says "law" in this verse. And if you don't understand it, your conclusion will contradict so many other verses in the Bible that it's not even funny.
  4. Calling Brandon on this "little" thing reveals to me how he handles his mistakes. Will he cover them up or acknowledge, learn and move on?
  5. I believe that this "little misunderstanding" Brandon has about this verse is based on things way more important: licentiousness to sin and disobey God. If 2x2s claim to keep the ten commandments, it's too easy for other people to see they are lying. I believe the 2x2s' reasons for not wanting to believe that they need to obey the commandments and law of God is that they believe they are superior to others and have a higher revelation than God's word.
  6. I give Brandon a hint that it's not even in the Bible by asking for scripture. And also hint with "if it's not in the scripture" (which I know it's not), so that he can even tell me that someone else told him about this concept. I also probe a little with "how you came to believe this". He is free to tell me that he heard it in meetings or from a worker. But I don't think he will blame the workers. I think he is too afraid of them.

Brandon Miller's reply to me:

I think Romans 6:14+ does a great job of explaining it.

My comments on Brandon's reply

  1. Read what the authors of the Bible have to say about the law and contrast that with Brandon's beliefs.
  2. These verses do not mention "old law" at all. I believe Brandon is totally mentally capable of reading his Bible for the text string "old law". I think it is his other beliefs that keep him from being able to answer this simple few questions.
  3. And I clearly indicated in my question the two words "old law" and mentioned that they are not found together in the Bible.
  4. When Brandon says "...does a great job of explaining it", he totally overlooks the fact that "old law" isn't even mentioned.
  5. Romans 6:14
  6. What is sin? Sin is breaking the law.
  7. Brandon starts his reference with one verse and his point is immediately contradicted by the next verse below
  8. Romans 6:15 Tells us that we should not sin.
  9. Here's another rule that 2x2s should openly teach "Don't try to use scripture to justify your own theories." When someone tries to use scripture to justify a misconception, it does total damage to the idea that they are spiritually superior over you.

My question to Brandon Miller

After reading Romans 6:14, I still didn't understand what you meant by "old law". I did find Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: and also my Saviour said:
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Do you have something else to explain the phrase "old law"?

Brandon Miller's reply to me:

The old law I was referring to is the Old Testament law given by Moses to the Jewish people.

My comments on Brandon's reply

  1. Brandon seems to just ignore the scripture that I gave him about Jesus teaching the people to keep the commandments.
  2. Brandon seems to just ignore the scripture that I pointed about about Jesus not coming to destroy the law or the prophets.
  3. Brandon seems to just ignore how the Bible does not support his idea that we no longer need to keep the commandments of God.
  4. It makes me wonder if Brandon thinks it's OK to kill someone, if he doesn't believe he needs to follow the commandments of Jesus (if it feels right, do it, theology)
  5. Brandon seems to completely ignore the scripture from the New Testament references to the ten commandments and the law of Moses and instead fixates on an idea that the Law is only part of the Old Testament.

My question to Brandon Miller

In fact, if you have scripture for this, that would be most helpful. Or if it's not in scripture, would you mind sharing where you heard this or how you came to believe this?

Brandon Miller did not answer this question

My comments on Brandon's silence

  1. He may have been too embarrassed to admit the the concept of "old law" was not supported in scripture.
  2. He did not share where he had heard this "old law" concept from.
  3. He did not share how he came to believe in the "old law" idea.
  4. If he heard it from the workers (most likely, and perhaps from his room mate Chuck) then he may have been trying to cover for them and hoping I would just ignore the fact that he didn't answer the question.
  5. Many people would tend to forget they asked the question and the 2x2s would be delighted to be able to use their lack of discipline in following up. So it would be logical for 2x2s to just not answer questions, hoping that people would forget that the question was asked.
  6. For Brandon to tell me if he came up with the idea or it came from someone else would assign responsibility. Responsibility is something I've found that 2x2s are not good at accepting.

My question to Brandon Miller

Oh. More specifically, do you mean the ten commandments that God gave to Moses to give to the Jews?

The reason I ask is that the Bible never mentions an "Old Testament law" and Jesus refers to the law given by God to Moses in the New Testament, and besides fulfilling it, He adds to it.

Brandon Miller did not answer this question

My comments on Brandon's reply

  1. When I followed up on Brandon's silence and lack of knowledge, he has no answer to give still.
  2. This is what happens when people spend years going to meetings listening to workers talk about things they don't understand.
Ten Commandments - Home

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First Commandment

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3rd Commandment - Vanity

4th Commandment - Sabbath

5th Commandment - Honor

Sixth Commandment

Seventh Commandment

Eighth Commandment

Ninth Commandment

Tenth Commandment

Laws

Ordinances

Inlawed

Sabbath and 2x2s

Sabbath Day

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