2x2 Overseers, False Prophets

There are at least four classes of people in the 2x2 religion: older brothers, overseers, workers, elders and the friends. This is about the overseers of the 2x2 religion. Overseers of the 2x2 religion are false prophets and peer-elected managers of a staff of workers and run the workers' religion within one or more states.

Overseers of 2x2 Religion are False Prophets

False prophets preach their own message, not the word of God. Overseers preach two major lies:
1) Preachers must sell their homes and secondly that fellowship must only occur in homes. - there is no scripture that teaches this
2) That followers of the 2x2 religion must only fellowship in homes - there is no scripture that teaches this either.

Older Brothers Control

The older brothers rule over their overseers.

The older brothers control and manipulate the overseers by appealing to their ego, pride, lust for power, lust for honor and greed.

The older brothers allow overseers the access to rule over regions of countries in the 2x2 religion and the prestige of being known as an overseer.

Overseers report to the older brothers who run the religion in that country.

2x2 overseers manage a staff of workers that they assign to fields within their assigned state. They are also responsible for managing the workers' elders and the membership of the friends of the workers in that state.

Definition of 2x2 Overseer
A major leader in the 2x2 organization that employs a staff of workers in one or more states and assigns their workers to fields to preach and enforce the beliefs and rules of the 2x2 religion.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

Legal Excerpt from Alberta Society of Christian Assemblies in Alberta CANADA

The Overseer is to receive free board and lodgings. This comes firstly as free-will offerings from Members. The Society otherwise guarantees that the Overseer shall receive board and lodgings. An Overseer in a designated area is chosen from among the Preachers/Apostles. Generally one of the experienced and older Preachers/Apostles is chosen, one who is held in favour by the local Preachers/Apostles and with the directors of their neighboring Christian communities. An Overseer is thus chosen by general agreement for the good of the Christian work within the designated area and for the good of the worldwide Christian work as well. Should illness, old age, or other reasons affect the chosen Overseer, then another equally respected Preacher/Apostle will be chosen in the above-mentioned fashion.

Having seen too much of the overseers "talk" when they let down in the company of workers etc, this is one of many scriptures that describes them well when you know who they are, what they believe and how they operate, cover-up of child sexual abuse etc:

Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

The 2x2 religion is most often viewed by newcomers as a home church group. Only until they have knowledge of that large organizational structure of the religion, organized cover-up of the origins of the religion and child sexual abuse and the financial dealings do they begin to understand the insidious nature of the overseer's work. Many refuse to pay attention to the court cases and cries of help from victims of the workers' abuses. "It didn't happen to me" is one common excuse. This is when you see they don't believe in loving your neighbor as yourself.


Even adults having been born and raised in the religion and attending meetings for dozens of years are not aware of the large organizational structure and running of the religion. They don't know about how

  • who the older brothers are that run the religion
  • the systematic cover-up of their founder William Irvine
  • policies on setting overseers boundaries, when they can be divided and when they will be joined and an overseer dismissed
  • rules on when an overseer is dismissed and how they go about it
  • trust funds management
  • property records for items purchased by overseers for convention grounds
  • property owned through trusts by overseers
  • policies on doctrines in Bible they don't believe in
  • requirements for who can become an overseer
  • requirements of who can become a worker
  • requirements of people who want to become workers to sell everything and give money to overseers
  • performance requirements of workers
  • books that contain letters of recommendations and complaints against workers
  • policies on dismissal of workers
  • policies on removing meetings from elders homes
  • performance requirements for a person to become an elder
  • etc

Overseers Are Chosen by Overseers

I would like to point out that overseers are chosen by neighboring overseers and the older brothers, not by their followers. They are not elected. And if you wonder why doctrine is ignored, it is because the older brothers go by popularity. This explains the back-stabbing politics that go on in the work as described in Graham Thompson Letter.

Chain of Command

2x2 overseer Jerome Frandle hiring a lawyer Mr. Timothy Lessing who stated in court, "There is no unified structure. There is no unified chain of command. There, in fact, is nothing."

Contrary to this falsehood, millions of people who have had contact with the 2x2 organization know and can state the 2x2s' chain of command: the friends of the workers have the workers' elders ruling over them, who are ruled over by workers of the overseers who are ruled over by the overseers who are ruled over by the "older brothers".

The Judge of Jerome Frandle stated at Jerome's sentencing, "The Court will review portions of the transcript at this time from the February 10, 2012 hearing. Just a moment. Ms Koning did testify -- and I'm looking at page 54 of the transcript. The Court made findings in which I referred to Ms Koning's testimony about there being a clear hierarchal structure with the division of duties and different authority that rest with various members of the organization."

The Overseers' For-Profit Organization

The 2x2 organization is a for-profit business.

In a Michigan Courthouse, overseer Jerome Frandle paid his lawyer Mr. Timothy Lessing who stated in court that, "There's no federal tax exempt status with respect to these individuals." That means the overseers have indicated in court that they are running a for-profit business. While Mr Lessing may have been trying to get Jerome Frandle out of the charge of failing to report child sexual abuse, he unwittingly exposed the 2x2 organization's for-profit status.

Their Business Reputation

Also, in Michigan Court, the 2x2 organization was characterized by Judge David B Herrington

...On the other hand, during the course of the hearing it became very clear to the Court that this organization, which I believe is THE FAITH is a highly secretive organization.


The older brother workers and overseers have a reputation by their own staff of being dishonest. One of their own workers tried for years to reason with them before quitting his job because of their dishonesty. See Graham Thompson Letter

Could You Be an Overseer?

Could you be an overseer? Would you sell everything and give it to an overseer to become a worker? Could you be a worker for years and gain enough popularity to become an "older companion."? Could you hear and see all the things that go on in the 2x2 organization and stick with it? Could you gain enough popularity among the friends of the workers in order to be promoted to overseer of the workers?

How evil do you think you would have to be to do what many of them have done over the years? What would you have to believe to justify your actions when your conscience bothered you at night? Not ALL overseers have done the following but these are the reports by former friends of the workers about some of the overseers.

  • Could you lie about how the 2x2 religion started?
  • Could you lie to people when they asked about William Irvine?
  • Could you molest a little boy or girl and live with yourself?
  • Could you know about child sexual abuse by a worker on your staff of workers and then move that worker to a new field so they had access to more kids and not warn the parents nor the kids?
  • Could you hire someone as a worker knowing that they had sexually abused minors in the past?
  • Could you keep a meeting in the home of a elder who was molesting his own son or daughter and tell others to "shut up" when they complained?
  • Could you call a known pedophile a "brother in Christ" and fellowship with them contrary to the Bible?
  • Could you threaten a sister worker with kicking her out of the work for complaining about being raped?
  • Could you tell people that you don't take collections but then take collections from workers each year at their designated "home convention"?
  • Could you have others like the workers' elders set up trust funds from inheritances of people that have been deceived?
  • Could you have trust fund managers secretly dole out the money to you without any oversight?
  • How about kicking people out for marrying outsiders and then partake of the bread and fruit of the vine when putting child molesters in people's meetings?
  • Could you take part in meeting after doing these things?
  • Could you take part in the fruit of the vine and the bread unworthily after doing these things?
  • Could you have affairs with men or women in the field and then get up and preach how Christians are going to hell because they don't profess like you?

If you couldn't do these things, I don't think you would have what it takes to be an overseer of workers. How evil would you have to be to molest kids and preach the next day? How evil would you have to be to rape a women and threaten to kick her out if she talks? How evil does a person have to be to molest kids and/or cover-up and aiding workers who molest kids?

Financial Supporters of the Overseers of the Workers

How evil would you have to be to financially support these overseers? I hope these questions sink to your heart. If you really want to know the truth, then answer those questions. And give your "testimony" on it in meetings. You'll find out who they really are.

Next, how are overseers treated differently than workers financially? If you're a worker you probably haven't heard about the trust funds and bank accounts of overseers. And if you won't take my word for it, please read legal documents from the previously registered 2x2 incorporation in CANADA.

Overseers Report to the Older Brothers

The overseers report to the The Older Brother Workers.

Infamous Overseers: Convicted and Accused

Infamous 2x2 overseers include Leslie White who has been accused of raping a female worker, Ira Hobbs for child sexual abuse and Jerome Frandle - Home who was convicted in Michigan for failing to report child sexual abuse. This shows how there is an environment that protects pedophiles among the "big boys". And this is just among the overseers. I hope you can see that if the overseers are involved in crimes, they would have a reason for covering up the crimes of workers on their staff, and for popularity sake, covering up the crimes of workers on other's staff.

Overseers Forbid Workers to Marry

Contrary to the Bible, overseers forbid their staff of workers from marrying. They lie and say that it is for the "Gospel's sake". This is a subtle lie. Cult leaders use the forbidding of Biblical marriage to control people.see Marriage Forbidden. Even the Catholic Church does not forbid their "priests" from marrying. Absolute control over multiple aspects of workers' life is what the overseers want. Workers are not even allowed to buy their own car, a motorbike, own a home, have a business (even tent-making) etc.

Listen to What the Friends Say About Problems of Overseers Doctrines

Here is a quote out of Kent Griggs story that shows the problems of forbidding marriage and an overseer's pathetic comment on the problems the overseers unscriptural teachings cause.

All sex was to be denied except for procreation. Workers and Elders sometimes used their power to seduce other men, women, and children. I should know--my father is a documented pedophile. I don't remember my father ever abusing me sexually but this may be a classic case of denial. My father was a child molester when he was a worker before I was born. The documented incidents of molestation involve a 12-year old boy who was repeatedly abused over a two-year period. My father would sneak into the boys room and molest him while the family was asleep in the other rooms. When the "head worker" was told, his response was "Well...the workers aren�t married and sometimes these things happen."

Married Workers?

In the past, there have been a FEW married workers (you could probably count their number on your fingers). But the ban is in full force swing now and enforced. From what I have read, overseers looked down (despised and discriminated against) the few workers that were allowed to marry. I don't think there is a single married 2x2 worker now.

Overseers Forbid Biblical Education by Workers

Since overseers believe all others but them are going to hell (mark of many cults), they forbid workers from going to a seminary. The primary reason is that believing in God as portrayed in the Bible or even in a seminary (without workers' brainwashing present) would cause someone to leave the cult.

Complaints About Overseers

If there are too many complaints about an overseer, they may either be demoted to the worker position or moved to oversee a different state. See an example of this with Everett Swanson and the Ronan letter. For those friends who like the cult, and want to get rid of their overseer, simply be in good standing and complain (and get others to complain) to neighboring overseers. This will eventually get them removed.

Overseers Don't Believe in Jesus Christ

Believe it or not, the overseers don't believe in the one and only Jesus Christ described in the Bible. The sound belief that Jesus Christ is God is considered an error in doctrine. The overseers believe Jesus is just a nice man, came to save the world, and the son of God, but don't believe he is God in flesh as scriptures teach. This is a belief that Jesus Christ is not God is from Satan. Workers believe that Jesus started the 2x2 way (was actually an experiment of 2x2 Founder William Irvine.

Workers Claim Authority - Even Above God

As a result in not believing in who Jesus really is, they claim final authority (even above God) in all matters. This is why Mathew 18:15-20 is not followed to allow offenses to come before the church as Jesus taught. They want absolute authority of membership. When a worker was asked about following Matthew 18:15-20, they replied "We don't do that."

From my time as a worker, the overseer had the final say in everything including doctrine. If workers insist on teaching something from the Bible that the overseer doesn't believe, they are removed to another state or kicked out of the work. If you don't believe that Jesus Christ is God, then I don't see the point in believing in God. Jesus accepted worship (and Only God is to be worshiped), and if he is not God in flesh, then you are saying that Jesus Christ is a liar and false prophet (the overseers don't believe in Jesus and shows in the way they deal with "problems"). I challenge you to ask an overseer if he believes Jesus is God. I believe you will be marked by them as contentious person / a problem maker. If you find a single overseer who believes Jesus Christ is God in flesh, please contact me immediately through the form at bottom of this page. I have not met a single overseer yet that believes in Jesus Christ. This shows in:

  1. Possessing a spirit not of God (an evil spirit) and allowing themselves to be controlled by that spirit especially in meetings. They even ask the spirit to guide the meeting. This is commonly known as a "spirit guide" by cultists.
  2. Disparaging remarks about the government, taxes and legal issues
  3. Scorning of people who are offended by workers
  4. Lack of basic respect for human life: cover-ups of child sexual abuse, not reporting food poisoning though people's lives were at stake
  5. The way they treat people who ask them questions
  6. Secrecy about their beliefs - do their works in secret because they are evil
  7. Resorting to their opinion about doctrinal issues instead of giving the Bible and God the last word on the issue
  8. Doctrines which vary from state to state - no Biblical unity
  9. Hatred, slander (and encouraging others to do so) to people who leave the cult.

Big Lie - They Care

If you think the overseers care about the friends, think again. This is a lie. They don't are about your life (I was almost allowed to die, except my mom intervened), they don't care about your health, nor the friends, nor God. The "care" that they show is for "show".

I firmly believe 2x2 Overseers are Satanic - Proof

The overseers have given themselves over to an evil spirit. God said to love others. If we lie, we hate. 2x2 overseers have conspired to lie and do lie about the 2x2 religion beginnings. Therefore, they do not follow God. Liars are going to hell. see also in more detail Are 2x2s Christians?. If you will put in writing the truth about the cult origins and get one overseer to sign it, then please contact me with link below. The overseers' ways are changeable and follow the pattern of their father Satan; telling lies and deceiving and taking pleasure in it. Overseers who have been in the cult for years, and they know the wickedness and lies of the group yet continue to practice them and teach heresies.

Kicked Out

If you want to get kicked out of the 2x2s, go up to an overseers and tell them:

"I believe in Jesus Christ, that he is God in the flesh and that I have salvation by Jesus Christ. I repent of my sins. I believe that people who put their faith in God and don't go to meetings though they know of them and the workers are saved just like me."

Put that in writing and mail it to them. Say the same thing in your "testimony" at Sunday meeting. The overseers and workers have agreed that if you do this, you should be kicked out soon. They reject Jesus Christ and salvation through faith in God. This is their hatred of Christians and rejection of their fellowship. This is how much they hate the gospel of salvation through faith in God. They don't want the friends to hear about the gospel of Jesus Christ, repentance and salvation through faith in God.

False Hope, Delusion and Allure of Satan

Overseers work with Satan to give people a good feeling about professing (a practice that was never taught by Jesus Christ). They "test" meetings to ask people to "profess". This practice of testing meetings is not Scriptural. Not a single instance did Jesus ever teach this. The Bible teaches faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and confession with mouth instead. Works must follow faith, or the faith is dead. Read the scripture. As a worker, we tested meetings and had people sing hymns so that people could not confess out loud while they stood to their feet during a tested meeting. And we lied to them about Jesus Christ so they could not believe in Jesus Christ with their heart because they didn't know who he was! Here's what the Bible says about salvation. Notice it involves actual faith (in Jesus Christ, not 2x2 overseers), believing in the Lord Jesus (making him your master) and confessing with your mouth. By keeping people from knowing Jesus, insinuating things that caused them to put their trust in us, keeping them from confessing with their mouths, it gave them a delusion that they had given themselves to God. Instead, they lived a life of fear and false hope that they "might be saved" because they weren't sure if they were going to heaven or not! I apologize that I was led astray by Satan and practiced such evil things. Please forgive me.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

The actions of the overseers, their corruption and cover-up of the sexual abuse of children shows that they don't believe in God. They don't have the love of God, they have the good appearance that they need to take advantage of parents.

This is also why followers of the workers are ashamed or embarrassed to talk about God in public or praise the Lord openly. Have you ever heard an overseer say "Praise the LORD" in a meeting?

Overseers Rule by Intimidation and Fear

The overseers rule by intimidation and fear. Just think of yourself as a young man, having sold everything and given it to them (you have no car, no money, no job). They control you. With one word, they can stop your income.

They only have as much power over you as you allow yourself to believe in them. For example, if they asked me now to come to meetings, I can just ignore them. Because I am not in bondage to Satan (purchased by precious blood of Jesus Christ), they do not rule over me. I am God's and they have no power to remove me from God's hands. Those that live in fear, being subject to Satan, are ruled and controlled by overseers. They feel obligated to and fear the overseers and workers. I have a job, a car, a place to live. So I am not financially in bondage to OVERSEERS now.

Different Gospel and Spirit not of God

I will show through scripture (as I work on this page):

  1. They lie, deceive, brainwash and seduce people to believe a different gospel than taught by Jesus
  2. They persecute people who seek to know God and follow God
  3. They teach heresies (theology that contradicts the Word of God)
  4. They knowingly twist the scripture to keep people from believing in Jesus
  5. They possess a spirit that is not of God. They claim all the 2x2 "friends" possess this same spirit

Rejecting Truth, Rebellion and the Sin of Witchcraft

Rebellion against God is as the sin of witchcraft. Overseers are in rebellion against God. They scatter people whom Jesus Christ is trying to gather. They form churches in towns and try to keep them from entering into fellowship with Christians. Here is what it says in the Bible about rebellion.

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Lying about cult origins

From everything I've heard, the overseers coverup or lie about the cults origins and deny teaching heresies. The Bible teaches us that those who are telling lies hate those who are hurt by it. Who is hurt by the lies of the overseers? Anyone these men lie to. Many teach lies to coverup their founder William Irvine who started the cult in about 1897.

Pro 26:28 A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.

No Sacrifice for Willful Sin

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Changing Doctrines

Just like a harlot: has words smoother than oil, are sweet, changes her tactics to seduce a man; the same way, overseers can change their doctrine to seduce unsuspecting people into the cult. I don't believe they care about the Word of God, unless they think that "acting like they care" will help someone join the cult.

Pro 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil: But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword. Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell. Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them.

Combined with the secrecy of the cult, the 2x2s changing doctrines, teachings and insinuations are used to deceive people and lead them to the depths of hell, pulling the life right out of them until they are rendered helpless and too weak to leave on their own. It is only by the Grace of God and the faith of others that some have escaped to become Christians. Many who escape join another cult or fall into abusive relationships.


One of the biggest problems facing overseers is their isolation from normal life. They live off others, don't have houses to maintain, don't work normal jobs, don't have normal relationships with people and live in a largely pro-2x2 environment with people who support them..

Money making business without Taxes

From what I've seen, the overseers run a "for profit" business but these men don't believe they have to file income tax returns or pay taxes ( I have never had an overseer tell me that he filed income tax returns). I don't think it's legal to run a "non-profit" company and make individuals wealthy. I've also been told that they drive nicer cars (that they receive as benefit from others for their "work" as a 2x2 overseer, nice clothing, gifts (I've not seen claimed on taxes), medical expenses and plane fares. I have never heard or even dreamed of an overseer making public their business's financial records. Do you know about the financial "trusts" that the workers have set up? Do you know who manages those trusts?

Goal of 2x2 Overseers

I see the ultimate goal of the overseer is to twist the meaning of scripture and use subtle abusive behavior to gain prestige and power and ultimately destroy souls so that they come to hate God.

I believe this to be easily proven given that:
  1. The overseers teach heresies to nullify the commandments of God and gain followers to themselves instead of God
  2. They despise those that teach the Word of God.
  3. They preach a distorted view of God and create conflict and havoc in people's minds so far that many workers become mentally and physically ill. These workers show up as "in care of health", "resting" etc on field lists.
  4. People who leave the cult often say to the affect "I'm never going to get involved with religion again".
  5. Many join other cults (because they have been conditioned to the abuse) or become atheist or agnostic.

Why I believe overseers are Not of God and Can be Safely Ignored

  1. Overseers don't know God and don't understand teachings of Christ. They teach heresies. They show up in the teachings of workers and the beliefs of their followers.
  2. Overseers teach their own rules handed down by early cult leaders and reject the teachings of God
  3. Overseers break the commandments of God and teach others to do the same
  4. Overseers encourage workers and their followers to idolize them
  5. Overseers discourage and reject workers and their followers who are seeking to know God. When these people ask questions about the cult and its origins, they may be slandered and "excommunicated"

Power Struggles

The 2x2 ruling group is composed of workers who are in a continual power struggle. Many gain power by their supposed submission (idolatry rather) to the current overseer and earn "points" this way. Others manipulate their way to the top through pleasing important people and trying to gain favor. It has been this way from the very first when William Irvine gained power by despising others and setting himself up as a supposed gift of God to mankind. Workers struggle to gain popularity in their field, struggle to gain a good field that earns them more money and if they are ambitious, to rise to the rank of overseer. Many choose to go overseas where they are free to preach their different revelations and gain a hero's welcome when they return to their home field.

Overseer Hiring Practices

For you to get the job of a worker, you must be approved by the local overseer. They decide if you are allowed to preach. If they don't like you for any reason, you won't be allowed to preach in meetings. If you did try to preach, they would make it intolerable for you to continue by their typical slander of you to other followers etc. If you are allowed to work for them, your name is put on the worker's list.

Overseer Firing Practices

Overseers fire workers for any reason they want. If a person is sick and has too much medical bills, then they can just take their name off the worker's list. Then the followers of the movement in their area know they are "no longer in the work" and quit supporting them with money. You know you've been fired if they leave your name off the worker's list.

Overseers Geographical Boundaries

Overseers usually restrict their activities to geographical boundaries because of conflicting doctrines, teachings, insinuations, interpretations of practices of the group. For example, in Colorado they "allow" people to remarry after they divorce. So 2x2s may move to this state if they want to remarry. In California, it isn't permitted (at least not now, but their teachings change frequently). Boundaries are usually drawn at state lines.

2x2 Overseer Abusive Control Over Workers or His Staff

Workers are traded by overseers like commodities. If an overseer loses too many workers, then he loses his income base. All overseers are men. Women are never allowed such authority. The only authority that women are allowed is to act as workers and then only as long as they are agreeing with the overseers. Overseers may "loan" workers to other overseers.

2x2 overseers hold control over the workers through several preplanned abusive tactics established by William Irvine:
  1. The greatest control is the hurdles that workers are required to go through to get into the work. This makes them very receptive to whatever the overseers have to say. When workers go into the work, they are required to sell everything and give it away (usually to the elder workers who give the money to the overseer). Also, they are required to never marry. So a new worker has: no money, no friends and family close by and is moved to a new location to preach the 2x2 message. While no reasonable person would do this, these people are under the mind control of the workers and overseer and firmly believe (they will discredit or silence opposing thoughts) that they are actually being called by God.
  2. Overseers make the list as to where workers go to preach and which companion they are with. This gives them tremendous power over the lives of workers who must live with the consequences of this list for a whole year. Whoever makes the list holds the power. The workers are indoctrinated from when they first enter the 2x2 work that they must go "anywhere with anyone" when the list comes out. Workers may or may not be asked about where they would like to be or with whom.
  3. Overseers enforce the rules of workers not preaching a doctrine in a field of other workers that contradicts with the current worker's teachings. They do this by spreading stories and preaching against the other person's ideas. They will also have a "visit" with them. This is supposed to help maintain some sort of unity, but truth be told, they have so many contradictions in their teachings from the Bible that it's a hopeless cause.
  4. Overseers can spread lies about a worker to other workers and let the gossip ruin the workers reputation. Overseers are viewed like Gods because of their public appearances and smiling and preaching about God. But people don't see the abusive tactics these overseers use behind closed doors. Workers put out of the work by the overseers must keep silent for fear of the humiliating things the overseers can "let slip" about them. Also the the people kicked out of the work often feel that they have "fallen" from their place and blame themselves even if they did something good and got punished for it.
  5. They can visit that workers field and make comments to put them a worker "out of favor". If a worker is teaching a doctrine that the overseer doesn't like, then he may "visit" that field and the workers will be obligated to ask the overseer to preach in their meeting. Then the overseer may use this platform to correct the "other" doctrine and preach his own. He may mention in his preaching that anyone who disagrees with this is ignorant or use some other claim to discredit and silence any opposition. Often this preaching is put in allegory form but those who know what is going on get the "message" within the "message". The lack of openness of the message does not lessen it's strength in the cult setting, but rather accentuates it.
  6. They can "lean" on the worker by "going for a walk" with them and saying things to them in private
  7. Overseers also hold control by how much money they give out of the fund for medical expenses and whether they allow a worker to receive medical treatment from the fund.
  8. Overseers have financial control because workers are not allowed to have jobs on the side to make money, except in the case where they are preaching in a country where it is illegal to proselytize and they use a job as cover.
  9. Overseers control how much money workers make by which "field" they put them into.
  10. Overseers take things that the workers say and twist them to manipulate and control people into believing certain things about them which may not be true but have the desired effect the overseer wants.
  11. The overseer has power to just remove a worker from off the workers list and then the worker has no choice but to "lose their place" in the "work". This may happen with or without any notice.
  12. Through strict rules the workers crave the approval of the overseer so that they can rise in the ranks of the overseer's staff. Some workers are "groomed" to become an overseer and others are cast aside and given tough places to preach the 2x2 way.

How Overseers Gather Money - Harold Bennett and Stanley Sullivan

While it is common for workers to not ask for money, this is definitely not the case for overseers.

There are three ways overseers gather money:
  1. Wills - The overseers collect money through the wills of people who die in the field and leave money to them. They may tell the person who is going to die to leave it in the name of a money handler who then gives cash to the overseer so it is not traceable.
  2. Annual convention money gathering - Overseers assign an older worker who is on the "in" to gather all the money of the staff of workers at their home annual convention. They then take this money that they claim is going towards "expenses", claim to equally divide it up the rest and distribute the remained back to the workers. This is what I learned while in the "work". I was asked for all my money at my second convention. I asked Curtis Jacbosen (former 2x2 worker) if he experienced the same thing. He told me that he too was asked for all his money at convention when he was a worker.
  3. 2x2s who become workers - When I became a worker, I was asked to sell everything and bring my money to convention. Stanley Sullivan was the one who asked me for money when I went into the "work" in Boring Oregon while Duncan Hunter owned the property. This was done my first year in the work and also I believe at Ronan convention grounds in Ronan, MT. The overseers gather enough money this way to travel overseas and to tour across the country to different conventions and "special meetings" and buy meals at nice restaurants.
  4. Meeting rounds - As overseers tour other countries and special meeting rounds and stay in the wealthier people homes, these people give money to them.

Don't file Taxes - Taught by Older Workers to their Younger Companions

I've never met an overseer that files taxes or has registered his business as a non-profit group. I've heard from Joel Lewis that many of them use several wealthy "elders" to manage their money. Doug Corcoran told my dad that he manages money for Harold Bennet and invests it in the stock market. I've also been told that overseers tell the elders to pay the taxes on the money so they keep it out of their name. I've also heard that they keep the money spread out over many elders so that each one doesn't know how much money the other has.

Overseers employ many workers. They assign them companions (someone of the same sex to work with) and fields (geographical areas that they are assigned to work in). They also tell them how long they are to work in that field. Workers are forbidden to take jobs or preach for other churches or earn other income.

Salarying Sick Workers

Some members have reported that workers who are ill are reduced to mimimal salaries about about $200 per month provided they continue in the work when they are well.

Discrimination Against Women

Women are never allowed to be overseers. If a man worker teaches something, a woman worker is not to contradict them. If a man worker comes to a meeting, then the woman workers must let him speak in the meeting if he wants to.

Do You Believe in Satan?

As a 2x2, I heard of Satan, but not much was preached about him. The workers never cast out devils. In fact, I rarely heard about evil spirits, devils or demons. The worse thing Satan can do is to use "so-called" preachers to do his evil work. I am totally convinced that the overseers are servants of the devil.

2Co 11:11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.
2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Names of overseers or former overseers in world include:


Harold Bennett is overseer of Oregon. Ralph Sines was the previous overseer of Oregon. Howard Mooney was the previous overseer of Oregon before Ralph Sines

Other previous overseers: Jack Carrol, Willie Jamieson, Everett Swanson(Montana)

Australia: Ray Corbett, Clyde Jamieson, Albert Barnes (dead), Clyde McKay (NSW)

England: Ben Crompton

2x2 Overseer Questions

  1. Why aren't overseers accountable for their business?
  2. Why do they teach lies instead of the true gospel?
  3. Why don't their followers have fellowship with Christians?
  4. Why won't they disclose their beliefs?
  5. Why do overseers collect money from all the workers at annual conventions?
  6. Why do the overseers put their money in other people's names and move money into foreign bank accounts?
  7. Why do the overseers have power to kick people out of the cult without reason?
  8. Why do people financially support the overseer?

Other possible overseers

Barry Barkley, Charles Steffen, Taylor Wood, Charles Thain,Kenneth Lerwick, Richard Middleton, Ed Alexander, Ira Hobbs, Ron Thompke, George Lee, Glenn Gasser, Dennis Kinnan, or Irving Ross

Dead Overseers

George Walker, Jack Carroll, Eldon Tenniswood, Taylor Wood, or Charles Steffen.

Current Overseers

List I got off website

Posted by Anonymous on February 6, 2012, 8:31 pm

New York/New England: Barry Barkley
Pennsylvania: Albert Knaggs
Virginia/MD/DE: Sam McCracken
NC: Tom Nussbaum
SC: Jim Holt
GA: Dennis Kinnan
FL: Carl Hamilton
AL/MS: Richard Gasser
KY/TN: George Lee (Greg Harger is the right hand man)
OH/WVA: Irving Ross
MI:Jerome Frandle
WI: Charles Vaughan
MN: Ron Thompke
IL/IN: Ray Hoffman
Iowa: Jeff Thayer
Missouri/Arkansas: Robert Ebherhardt
Texas: Lyle Schober
Oklahoma: George Peterson
NM: Kelvin Naef
CO/UT: Jim Price
Montana and Wyoming: Dean Bruer
Washington and Idaho: Mark Huddle
Oregon: Harold Bennett
California/NV/AZ/HI: Dale Shultz with Walter Pollock as his right hand man

2008 list of Overseers in United States

Someone posted on a message board this list in 2008

  • New York/New England: Barry Barkley
  • PA: Albert Knaggs
  • OH/WVA: Irving Ross
  • VA/DE/MD: Sam McCracken
  • NC/SC: RObert Flippo?
  • GA: Charles Vaughn
  • FL: Tom Nussbaum
  • Al/MS: Dennis Kinnan
  • LA: Gilbert Reese
  • TN: George Lee
  • IN/IL:Leslie White
  • KY:Greg Harger
  • Mi:Jerome Frandle
  • MN: Lyle Schober
  • WI: Charles Thain
  • ND:Glenn Gasser
  • SD: Joe Hobbs
  • IA:Jeff Thayer
  • Ks/NE: Ron Thomke
  • Mo/AK: Robert Eberhardt
  • TX: Ray Hoffman
  • NM: Kelvin Naef
  • CO/UT: jim Price
  • Mt/Wyoming: Dean Bruer
  • WA/ N. ID and Alaska: Mark Huddle
  • Or/S Idaho: Harold Bennet
  • CA/HI/AZ: Dale Shultz
  • OK;George Peterson
Overseers - Home

Sell All & Give to Me

2x2 Overseer Income

Howard Mooney

Ralph Sines

Harold Bennett

Dale Shultz

Dean Bruer

2007 Overseers USA

Jerome Frandle

Barry Barkley

David Leitch

Evan Jones

Evan Jones Statement

Leroy Sanford

Irving Ross

Peter Hunter

No Faith

Sandy Dougal

Jeff Thayer

George Lee

Overseer's Traditions

Richard Gasser

Job Description

Overseer Success

Ira Hobbs

Leslie White

Lyle Schober

Ron Johnson

Jack Price

Jack Carroll

Dick Middleton

Bill Carroll

George Peterson

Glen Gasser

Graham Snow

Tharold Sylvester

George Walker

Taylor Wood

Start a Religion

Irvine Pearson

Carson Cowan

Charles Steffen

Ken Paginton

Jim Price

John Mastin

Garrett Hughes

Ray Hoffmann

Ron Thompke

Mark Huddle

William Lewis

Peter Morrison

Everett Swanson

Albert Knaggs

Ray Corbett

Paul Sharp

Ben Crompton

Paul Sharp DR and TVs

Eldon Tenniswood

Murray Keene

Willis Propp

Merlin Affleck

Carson Wallace

Jim Atcheson

Charles Thain

Bill Denk Letter

Beguiling Souls

Clyde McKay

John Baxe

Tom Nussbaum

Malcom Clapham

Tom Turner

Wayne Dean

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To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. - Jesus Christ speaking to Saul, see Act 26:18, see Salvation through Jesus Christ.
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