Are 2x2s Christians?

Are 2x2s Christians? Are 2x2s saved? These are common questions when people learn the gospel of Jesus Christ and think back on their participation in that religion. When I talk with ex2x2s on the phone they often ask, "Are 2x2s saved?" or "Are 2x2s going to hell?"

Let's ask a few questions:

  • Do Christians send out pedophile preachers to another area and don't warn parents?
  • Do Christians send out homosexuals paired up who sleep in the same room and the same bed?
  • Do Christians claim that their church is from the beginning when they know their real founder is William Irvine who started their organization in about 1890's?
  • Do Christians cover up the physical abuse of saints against their own children?
  • Do Christians cover up child sexual abuse?
  • Do Christians lie to little kids and intimidate them?
  • Do Christians fellowship with rapists and deceive new people to gain more followers?
  • Do Christian preachers lie to followers, take church funds and make private individuals wealthy?
  • Do Christian preachers despise the commandments of God and teach lies in place of God's gospel?

Ok, those are great questions. Who are Christians? Fortunately the Bible is clear on who is a Christian. Christians are disciples of Jesus Christ. Christians are followers of Jesus Christ. Christians have faith in Jesus Christ. The Christians worship Jesus Christ as God.

Do the 2x2s know God? Is there a single Christian in the 2x2 cult? From what I've read in the Bible and what I've experienced in the 2x2 cult, there could not be a Christian in the 2x2 cult. I certainly believe that it is possible that people can get out and later become saved, but no disciple of Jesus Christ would fellowship with 2x2s. Please let me share with you scripture that has led me to the above conclusions:

I was a worker. I know what workers believe in general. I've traveled to all 50 states and been to meetings in almost all states. They claim they are the same around the world, so even countries I haven't been, they claim they believe the same. So here a quick summary of what they profess to believe:

  • 2x2 claims to love God
  • 2x2s profess/claim that the Bible is their creed
  • 2x2s profess to believe that the Father is God
  • 2x2s profess that the son of God set up a New Testament ministry
  • 2x2s profess that Jesus Christ is the son of God, but not God
  • 2x2s profess that Jesus Christ is not the Word of God (or they may say they do, but only believe that in some verses and not all, like John 1:1+)
  • 2x2s profess that the workers are the only true servants of God and are the continuation of the only New Testament ministry
  • 2x2s profess what the workers tell them more than what they read in the Bible. In other words, 2x2s believe the workers above God.
  • 2x2s profess that the workers understand the Bible and that the Bible is a "closed book" to the "world" (where the word "world" means anyone who doesn't profess)

Most of the points here are found in John's first epistle, 1 John. So if you think you believe in the Bible, feel free to read 1 John (all chapters) and then read or reread this page. You might remember that John is an apostle of Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ's church is founded on Jesus Christ, the prophets and the 12 apostles. So, the obvious conclusion from all this is that according to the Bible, John is a part of the new testament ministry, an eyewitness, and more knowledgeable and have more understanding than any worker ever could.

1) Rejection of Jesus Christ as God

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Even the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ as the Savior knew that Jesus Christ claimed to be God in the flesh.

When Jesus Christ said of himself that he was God, can you call Jesus Christ a liar and then claim to have faith in God?

If you say you love God, but reject Jesus Christ who claimed to be God, then how can you claim to love God?

Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Here you have Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, calling God her Saviour. Please ponder this. Whether you substitute "the Father" or "Jesus Christ" for the word Saviour (either one is correct because the Father and Son are one), they both claim to be God. The Father and The Son claim to be the Saviour, and indeed God is the Saviour. So if you believe the Father is the Saviour, and that Jesus Christ is not God, then you call Jesus Christ a liar. By the same line of thought, if you call Jesus Christ the Saviour and won't call Him God also, then your are calling the Father a liar. Or perhaps, the third option. You refuse to say either are liars, claim to not understand the Bible and hope that the workers do and that perhaps this will somehow make you righteous before God and good meeting attendance will get you saved????

Let me rephrase it again. God claimed to be the Saviour. God (the Father if you prefer) claimed to be the Saviour of mankind. So, even IF you were to profess that Jesus Christ is the Saviour, then to reject Jesus Christ as God is to call God (the Father, if you prefer) a liar. God said he was the Saviour. So if you say Jesus Christ is the Saviour, but not God, then you have called God a liar. Do you see how you cannot call either of them liars and still profess to believe in God without appearing confused to a Christian who simply believes the father and the son?

Can you reject Jesus Christ and still be a Christian? Doesn't then name "Christian" have the word "Christ" in it? Maybe you could be an "ian", but not a "Christian"

1 John_5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

If you say you love the Father and call him God, but don't love the son (the only begotten of the Father), then they say that God is a liar.

Can you believe that God lies and want to worship him? That wouldn't make sense.

The Bible teaches that whoever loves the Father will love him that is begotten of the Father (Jesus Christ).

You cannot love the Father if you reject Jesus Christ as God. The greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart soul, mind and strength. How can you love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength if you don't know who God is? The false teaching of the 2x2s that "Jesus Christ is not God" shows that they don't believe the Bible.

As a 2x2, I was taught that Jesus Christ was "the son of God" (they don't know what that even means), but not God. I was taught that Jesus Christ was a nice guy. Even today I've read sermons by 2x2 workers who claimed that Jesus Christ wasn't good. ! ! ! And yet a few days later they may say that Jesus Christ was without sin. How can Jesus Christ not be good/perfect and yet without sin? Isn't Jesus Christ sinless and completely good? What fault can we find with Jesus Christ? These are huge contradictions in the 2x2 religion.

The simple fact remains that Jesus Christ is God. And this helps us to understand Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is to be worshiped as God, as the disciples worshiped Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches in John 1 that Jesus Christ is the Word of God and is God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Rejecting Jesus Christ as God is the same as rejecting God. It's that simple. A person cannot speak evil of Jesus Christ, calling Jesus Christ a liar and claim to be a Christian. Well they can....but the Bible calls these people liars. And this point of the 2x2s teaching that Jesus Christ is someone other than God is just to huge to ignore. How can you have faith in God and reject God at the same time?

In fact, workers often claim that if you don't accept the workers as God's only true servants then you have rejected God. So how much more so will God reject the workers for rejecting Him as Jesus Christ?

The majority of 2x2s don't believe that Jesus Christ is God. Some workers have been commanded to not publicly preach that Jesus Christ is God. I was told by an elder worker that "Jesus Christ being God" is a heresy!

Because 2x2s believe the interpretation of the Bible only by workers, they cannot understand the Old Testament or the New Testament writings of God. They cannot believe because what they trust in is darkness and confusion.

Exodus_3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Jesus Christ is the great I AM, God. The overseers and workers don't teach that Jesus Christ is God, therefore rejecting who Jesus Christ is.

Some 2x2s will say with their mouth that Jesus Christ is God, but they don't understand what this means. Most 2x2s will not even say that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus said that if we don't believe that he is "I am" then we would die in our sins.

2) 2x2s Reject God's Law

The ten commandments of God are God's law. The New Testament is God's law written on our hearts. 2x2s will even say that they are "under the New Testament", but don't even know what the New Testament is. The law of God is the work of God. How can you love God and reject his work? In regards to the perfect law of God, Moses wrote in Exodus:

Exodus_32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

Since the 2x2 overseers, workers, elders and their friends reject the ten commandments written on their hearts, they forbid and disallow the work of God on their heart.

The "friends" don't believe in following the ten commandments. I would say that about 99% of 2x2 could not even list the ten commandments. The friends of the workers outright reject keeping the ten commandments because they have no faith in God or the goodness of the commandments of God. Christians believe in keeping the commandments of God. This is a huge difference. Here's what the Bible says about people who claim to know God but don't keep his commandments:

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Do you believe what is written here in 1 John 2:4? Please ask yourself, "Are the overseers, workers, elders and the friends in the truth if the truth is not in them? Since the 2x2s and the 2x2 religion members don't keep God's commandments can they be saved? What does the Bible say about the eternal destiny of liars?

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I have talked with many people who have gotten away from the workers' meetings and have come to the conclusion that the workers (who claim to be apostles) are liars. This is interesting when remembering this verse:

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars...

3) Don't Love God's Children

2x2s who claim to love God don't even love people who put their faith in God. They only profess to love people who go to their meetings. They believe that only professing people who go to the workers' meetings are the children of God. They believe people who don't profess in their meetings are "outsiders".

Please remember what I said before. Workers often say that if you reject God's servants and God's people, then you have rejected God. They witness against themselves. So you have people who worship Jesus Christ, keep the commandments of God and love others who have faith in God, but these devout followers of Jesus Christ are rejected and damned by the workers as "going to hell". Again, they witness against themselves, rejecting any hope of salvation for people who won't attend their meetings Here's what the Bible says about these types of people:

1 John_4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

4) Not Allowed Testimony for Declaring Salvation by Faith in God

The highest ranking office of the 2x2s, called the overseers don't believe in salvation through faith in God and by the grace of God. To control their members, they believe you are only of God if you come to their meetings and profess. It is known by many now that if you tell an overseer that you believe that salvation comes by faith in God, and that you don't have to profess in meetings in order to be saved and that you believe that there are people outside of meetings that are saved, then you will be asked not to take part in meetings. The overseers don't want you verbally interrupting meetings with the idea that Christians are saved by faith in God. I find it interesting that the overseers are more interested in protecting their cult than many self-proclaimed lovers of God who lead many churches. This fact of overseers taking away the part of people in meetings shows that the overseers care more for their cult than many people who call themselves Christians who claim that 2x2s are saved.

5) Willful Ignorance of God's Law

Having gone to 2x2 "gospel" meetings for over 30 years, and preached 1 1/2 years as a worker, I know that keeping the commandments of God was not taught. As a child, or a worker, or years later as just another one of the friends, I could not have listed the ten commandments. I also believe that because of the idolatry of the overseers and workers that most workers and 2x2s could not even list the ten commandments of God.

Having gone to meetings ever since I was born, and having been in meetingsL in almost every state of the United States of America, and been in the work for a year and a half, I can tell you that the 2x2s do not keep the commandments of God. They don't obey God, don't love their neighbor as themselves, they take God's name in vain, don't keep the sabbath, dishonor their parents etc...

6) 2x2s Not Under New Testament

The New Covenant is established by God. The New Covenant is God's law written on our hearts. Since the 2x2s don't believe in keeping the ten commandments and honoring God this way, then obviously they are not in the new covenant. The law of God is not written on their hearts.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

7) 2x2s Dishonor Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ said that all who honor him will honor the father. The 2x2s don't honor Jesus Christ in the new covenant. They believe he was a really nice man. They don't understand Jesus Christ as the Messiah, or Saviour in the sense that Christians understand him. They believe he was an example of how to be a good worker. Even their older workers have claimed that Jesus Christ was not good. The 2x2s dishonor God and the son Jesus Christ, therefore they are not disciples of Jesus Christ.

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

8) Rejection of Holy Spirit

2x2s claim that they can tell the Spirit of God. However, this is comical and really a farse. Sometimes they see someone who they think is "professing", so they come up to them and ask them "Do you know (overseer's name)" And when the person turns out to be "professing" the 2x2 religion, they feel they have sensed the Holy Spirit. Really? What about the people they mistook? Also, here is why this is funny. If you've seen many 2x2 women, they wear their hair in a bun. Chances are in this day, that if you see a person with their hair in a bun, looking like many 2x2 women do, then it is probably for religious reasons (otherwise why look so odd?) and the odds are it is probably a 2x2. But, now let's get on to something more serious.

2x2 will say about Christians who have faith in God that they "have the wrong spirit." So now you have 2x2s saying about 2x2s that they have the Spirit of God, BUT they claim Christians have a wrong spirit (speaking evil of the Holy Spirit of God!). In other words, they believe that these Christians don't have the Spirit of God. Can you reject the Spirit of God and be saved?

9) 2x2s Dishonor the Father

2x2s do not honor the father. The days that are holy to the father are not holy days to them. They idolize the workers and hold them in esteem above God. They do not believe they are "under the ten commandments" of God and many are taught by workers to believe that the commandments of God are "bondage". By believing that God's commandments are "bondage" they believe God brings people into oppression and bondage, thereby bad-mouthing God.

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

The Bible clearly states that those who don't honor the father are not honoring the son(Jesus Christ). Likewise, to dishonor Jesus Christ is to dishonor God. You cannot have people claiming to honor Jesus Christ (which they don't) and at the same time dishonoring the Father.

10) 2x2s Do Not Continue (or even begin) in Jesus Christ's Words

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

The ten commandments are the Word of God.The 2x2s reject the ten commandments. How can yo continue in the Word of God if you don't even believe in the Word of God?

The Bible teaches that Christians continue in the word of God. The 2x2s do not continue in the word of God (most haven't even begun), so according to God, they are not disciples of Jesus Christ. If God says 2x2s are not disciples of Jesus Christ, then who am I to argue with God?

So many 2x2s have been dumbed down that they don't understand the basics of the Bible. And also the 2x2 preachers have taught lies for years that their followers believe. These accepted lies prevent 2x2 followers from understanding basic principles in the Bible.

11) 2x2s Are Not Doing the Works of God

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

The Bible teaches us that those who are of God do the works of God. Since the 2x2s are telling lies and deceiving people, they are not of God.

12) Telling Lies About their Past and About God

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Since the 2x2s lies about their past and are secretive about their activities and lie about God to children who have done them no harm, it is clear they are not children of God, but of the devil.

Rev_21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

13) Walking in Sin, Unrighteousness and Darkness

1Jn_1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Reject knowledge of God

2x2s hate Christians who expose their cult. They reject knowledge of God. I've asked to have discussions with workers over the Bible and they refuse.

14) No Fellowship with Christians

2x2s make it clear that to join their fellowship, you must break off ties and relationships with Christians. Not only do 2x2s walk in darkness, but they discourage people from fellowshipping with people who love the Lord God. If you claim to be a Christian, born-again, then they require you to be baptized into their gospel. They reject the gospel of "false" prophets (preachers that don't belong to their group).

Christians are not free to fellowship with 2x2s. I don't even know a single person who loves the Lord Jesus Christ that would want to fellowship with 2x2s. Christian preachers are not invited to speak in gospel meetings, but are rather spoken against. I have heard about an early 2x2 preacher inviting a Christian to speak at his service, but this was to draw people to his 2x2 meeting to steer people in to their religion. It was not a honest practice.

15) Hate Christians

1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

2x2s do not fellowship with Christians and hate Christians. The Bible says that those who say they love God but hate their brother are liars. John reasons that if they cannot love their brother who they see, then how can they love God who they cannot see?

16) Hate People They Lie to

Pro 26:28 A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.

2x2s lie about their founder and lie about God to people who have done them no harm. The Bible says that a lying tongue hates those that are hurt by it. 2x2s dating OUTSIDERS will lie to them to cover up the true beliefs of their religion. A person who lies to others is hating them and this is not the love of God.

These verses clearly explain how and why they are not Christians and why and how they hate Christians. It explains how 2x2 break up and divide families during recruitment.

If You Claim 2x2s are Christians

If you claim 2x2s are Christians, then you have rejected the Word of God and the principles of salvation as laid out by God so clearly listed in the scripture. Can you send to heaven whom God has rejected and assigned to hell?

Also, 2x2s believe you are going to hell if you don't profess. So if you don't profess and you claim that they are Godly, then you have condemned yourself because they believe you are going to hell.

I will write it again: Anyone who is not "professing" (part of the 2x2s) and claims that the 2x2s are Christians, has accepted the 2x2 belief they are going to hell. Because to say that the 2x2s are of God and you aren't one of them, is to also accept that you are going to hell.

Let me repeat a third time: Anyone stating that the 2x2s are Christians is promoting the belief that everyone who doesn't profess in a meeting tested by workers is going to hell.

What God Will Do to Liars

Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
  1. 2x2s lie about how the cult got started. If you know a single OVERSEER or WORKER who you believe is honest about how the cult got started, contact me. Link is below. Those who lie to others, hate the ones they lie to.

  2. 2x2s try to recruit Christians to get them to come to MEETINGS and leave fellowship with Christians
  3. Overseers lie about the origin of the cult
  4. Several overseers have covered-up and hidden child sexual abuse
  5. Workers are not even helpful, but are secretive about their beliefs.
  6. 2x2s don't even believe in keeping the ten commandments
  7. Workers don't edify Christians nor love them
  8. Followers are afraid to answer questions
  9. Followers not permitted to marry Christians (unequally yoked, which is correct. Christians should not date unbelievers)
  10. 2x2s libel and slander people who want to know God
  11. Workers have been dishonest in reporting their income to IRS
  12. Christians love others. They don't make it a habit to lie to others.
  13. 2x2s won't publish their beliefs
  14. 2x2s are secretive and cover-up crimes
  15. 2x2s change their lies based on what they want you to believe at the moment and based on what you have already found out
  16. 2x2s try to change what the word "love" means.
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Pro 12:19 The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment.

Having read all this, is it any wonder that many 2x2s don't know if they can know if they are saved?

See also Christians in Cults? and Challenge - Home

Who are 2x2s

Registered Names

William Irvine 2x2 Founder

Kept From You

Jesus Christ


No Commandments?

Someone Better

Are 2x2s Christians?

Why This Website


Cult Terminology

Satanic Cult

Who Is Going to Hell

From Cult to Jesus Christ

Blessings after Faith

Truth Religion

2x2 Timeline

2x2s in News

Recent 2x2 News

Lawsuit Fund


Typical Recruitment

Don't Go to Meetings

Please Talk to me

The Narrow Way


Ever wonder about


Terms of Use

Topics: Home    Salvation    2x2 Beliefs    Health    Sex Crimes    Recruitment    Problems    Married    Conventions    Meetings    Overseers    Workers    Elders    Parents    Friends    Teenagers    Professing    Letters    Stories    Holy Days    Love    Gospel    Warnings    Challenges    Bible    Ten Commandments    Covenants    Calendar    Sin    Satan    Matthew 18    Prayer    Baptism    Lists    Spirits    Evidence    Hymns    Organization    FAQs    Bible Studies    Countries    Australia    Canada    Vietnam    States    Oregon    Texas    Percy Watkins    Chris Chandler    Darren Briggs    Jerome Frandle    Bill Denk    Leslie White    Message Boards    Government    Brad    Exiting    Churches    Babes    New    Christian Conventions    Disciples    Funerals
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. - Jesus Christ speaking to Saul, see Act 26:18, see Salvation through Jesus Christ.
If you see ANY errors on this website, per Terms of Use, please report them immediately along with your contact information and evidence so that it can be verified. Or contact me through this form below.
Page Comment: (if you want me to respond to you, include email or phone)
Name: Email: