Vietnam Split - Chapter 2

CHAPTER 2 - 2000 to 2013
The Changing Time by Overseers

The Vietnam government controls and monitors all forms of public gatherings, including assemblies for religious activities. The government asked us to stop big gatherings without their permission.After the foreign Workers came and took over there could be no conventions because they entered Vietnam by travelling visa or for learning Vietnamese. Foreign preachers are not permitted to preach or hold a Convention. The Workers began holding Special Meetings, two Meetings on a Sunday in January and July in North VN and also South VN. The Special Meetings are referred to as session of classes where the Workers are the teachers or the Teaching Staff, and the Friends are students.

After the Workers discontinued Conventions, they began holding Special Meetings twice a year; in January and July, two Meetings held on Sunday. In those months, the Workers go on Special Meeting tours in North VN and then go to South VN.

Beginning in December, 2006, the Friends and Workers started going to Conventions held in other countries, such as Singapore; Port Dickson and Penang, Malaysia; and Cambodia. Many cannot afford to go.  There someone translated the speaker’s words into Vietnamese, and the VN Friends used ear-phones to listen. Each year there would be no Workers in Vietnam for one month, while all the Workers went abroad twice a year for Convention tours. They were able to spend one week at each Convention. Before 2006, the VN Workers also went to Convention in Hong Kong, but the VN Friends didn’t.

If the Friends are to attend a Convention, they must fly to another country where they hear another language and meet with people they don’t know and can’t communicate with! This is very expensive and doesn’t come close to the satisfaction of attending a Convention with Friends in their own country.

However, this may be changing. Reportedly a session of classes was held during a weekend in January, 2014 at a hotel in Hoi An which is a tourist town located in central VN, where some Sister Workers have a bach and foreigners would not be out of place.



Ten Examples of Changes Made by Canadian Overseers

In 2000, the Canadian Workers such as Morris Grovum, Darrel Turner, and Lyle Shultz, began to do some things that were not guided by the Spirit of God, and the situation got worse and worse!  They changed and changed as they went! The Workers used their authority to cut, to add, and to teach some things that are not right. This caused disagreements with those who weren’t willing for their changes.

The Elders prepared a list of questions about ten procedures the Overseers had changed. They concerned sitting vs. standing to take part in Meeting; when and how to hold Bible studies; what time to hold Fellowship Meetings; helping out with material things; young people’s Meetings; not eating blood; weddings, funerals, division of VN into fields, and Canadian Workers living in wealthy style. (View full list in Appendix)

It was
not these unimportant things that caused the split. The important thing was their deeds such as changing this or that were not done in the Spirit of God. And we didn't see the love among the Workers. They spoke ill of each other. In one case, a couple of companions Workers didn't talk to each other although they were living in the same apartment. ‘By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another’ (John 13:35). The Canadian Overseer belittled the two native Workers. We all saw these things. So how could we continue trusting this system? They preached the love of God but we didn't see the love among them, so how could we listen to their words? Mr. Bau wrote: The main point was that they didn’t give us the good examples that we had seen in the life of Workers before.

Some people, and in particular women, in some far Eastern countries are keen to latch on to Western men. In comparison to their own people, they perceive them to be wealthy. Western men in places like the Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. have to be careful around women who are only interested in them for the perceived benefits. It is sometimes their only hope or dream of getting a better life.

The Canadian Workers show off their money by riding very expensive motorbikes and living in expensive apartments. They portray themselves as wealthy (big shot) businessmen who invite people to eat in restaurants. No friends in VN ride expensive motorbikes as they do. We are very afraid for their security, because robbers often attack and kill people riding the SH motorbike.

There were some women who followed them because they thought these Workers were businessmen. One time two ladies met them, and the older said to the younger, ‘The old man is mine, and the other young man is yours.’ And they tried to approach them! (these two ladies are now married to foreigners outside.)

Flaunting their wealth attracts many young people to come to practice their English and causes young Friends to want to become Workers. I'm sure that if Darrel did not show an easy and comfortable life as a Worker, going abroad very often, that VN would not be crowded with Workers like it is now, and with more waiting to go out! Seeing Darrel Turner riding on SH motorbike, one Brother Friend said "I wish I were a Worker so I could have a motorbike like this. With the price of this SH, the government can build ten loving houses for poor people."

Hunger and poverty in Vietnam has existed for a significant amount of time. Until the 1980s, most of the Vietnamese population still lived under the poverty line. It is estimated that about 28 million people have been lifted out of poverty over the last two decades. By the end of 2010, the status of poverty and hunger in Vietnam had improved significantly. VN went from being one of the poorest countries in the world to a lower middle income country. The wages differ greatly between those living in the country and those in the cities.

Darrel told us not to use the word "lao khổ," and instead use "lao sướng." "Lao khổ"
means the Worker use all his/her effort to seek the lost sheep where ever they are and live a model life to show Christ through their life. The word "lao sướng" isn't even in the Vietnamese dictionary. Darrel coined it to emphasize that the young folks who go in the Work will be sure to have an easy life as he has.

The Workers in Uncle Fred's time lived in humble houses or apartments. They went to the market and prepared meals by themselves. They wore normal clothes and travelled by common motorbike. We saw the clear purpose in their life and the love of other souls and the bringing of Gospel to people. By contrast now, the Workers live in expensive apartments and we don't see the love for others, not even love among themselves!

Many young students follow because Morris invited them to the restaurant. One time Uncle Châu asked a student, "What is the reason you come to listen?" The answer, “I can enjoy very good food and practise speaking in English.” For this reason a lot of young people came, and Morris G. said, “The fish automatically jump into the net. We don't need to catch them.” Yet the Workers criticized Uncle Châu saying he used money in order to have affection (money as the bait to fish), and so his converts were not perfect. They were like fish with a hook in their mouth that were torn. In the North, many young students professed in the beginning, but nearly all of them who followed for a short time then stopped. The number of students professing in the North is now around 20.

Another big change: The Workers began asking for meals. These arrangements are something new organized by the Canadian Overseers. In the past Workers never asked for a meal. They just came to have the meal if the Friends wanted to invite them. Asking and appointing a date for Friends to serve them a meal isn’t convenient for some Friends because they are poor, some are too old to cook, and some don't know how to cook andserve meal for the Workers with their highest respect. Some friends in the countryside are so poor they had to borrow money for the meal. Some Sister Friends have told me how much they worry every time they received the arrangement asking for Workers' meal. In another place seeing the Canadian Workers visit to a very poor lady with two children, immediately the authority in that region cut off the welfare for the poor to that family, making their life become more difficult. I mentioned these things with Uncle Lyle one time.

Darrel recommended that when someone loans an amount of money to another, the loaner should consider it as a gift. And when someone wants to borrow an amount of money, he should go to the bank to borrow it. Darrel advised God’s people not to loan money to each other. But in our country, when someone wants to borrow money at the bank, they have to mortgage their house or their field. And some of the Friends don’t own anything. Jesus said: Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. (Matthew 5:42)  John wrote: But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. ( 1 John 3:17-18)



Uncle Châu
Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. (Exodus 1:8 KJV)

I think the main reason that caused Darrel to want to chase Uncle Châu out of the work, was because he didn't obey this rule of organization. Uncles Châu and Hoa both used to visit all the country after all the foreigners had to leave VN after 1975. Their fields were the whole country. And they continue to visit our Friends in the countryside. The native Workers had been going where the Spirit led them and where they felt there was a need. Sometimes, they traveled together and sometimes they went their separate ways in order to visit the Friends more often. However, the other Workers stayed together in pairs when they traveled and always lived in baches.

After Convention Uncles Châu and Hoa used their free time to visit Friends in their need, while the rest of the Workers went to the resort in the Highland, to the beach, or visit their families. One time an old man who knew Uncles Châu and Hoa through years was waiting for their coming to profess. Instead of having the joy of a professing, the Sisters in that field became very angry because Uncle Châu ‘trampled on their field!’ They still disagreed even after he explained the situation to them, and said that he learned all these things from Uncle Fred.

The Overseers also don't want Uncle Châu helping the poor VN Friends. They said that he used money or material goods to seduce Friends. But it is not right not to help poor Friends in their need! In the past some of the Elders also received the help from the local Workers. We did not receive any help from local Workers but still respected them with our whole heart. The way the foreign Workers think and speak about this is all wrong and not according to what the Bible teaches! For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’
(Deuteronomy 15:11)

In 2007 when Châu went to the USA on a tour of Conventions (read full letter in Appendix) he met ex-Worker Nathan Barker, who is a native Vietnamese now residing in Oregon. Nathan warned him against the Telling The Truth website and about the man who founded the Meetings named William Irvine. Nathan felt sure the internet information about the 2x2 history would someday reach the Vietnamese friends, and he wanted to prepare Uncle Châu for this event; i.e.to poison the well.

Châu doesn't believe the 2x2 church was started by Wm. Irvine, nor does he accept that the Workers church was started by a man about 100 years ago in Ireland. It is doubtful that Châu has read about the beginning of 2x2 church. Uncle Châu admonished me many times. "Please, don't waste your time on internet; reading many things there you may lose your soul!" My reply was "On internet we not only find out many things good for our decision, but also have had sweet Fellowship throughout the world, with love and understanding." Although he is afraid to contact us by email, we still send him news posted on the internet relating to VN situation. There is good reason to believe that Uncle Châu’s email was hacked and remains so to this day.


Hoàn and Minh Thanh Offer to Buy “Châu’s House”
“Uncle Châu has a House, while being a Worker”

After 1982 we didn’t have any gatherings at the Brother’s bach. They stopped renting that place because of high rent and no Meetings were being held there anymore. So it became useless. Uncle Châu’s family had arranged a place for Châu and Hoa. It was a house that belonged to Châu’s youngest brother, Mr. Vũ Trung Hiền who was living in the USA. The government entry (registration) showed this house as Hoa and Châu’s registered family book.

In 2009 Darrell sent Uncle Hoa to Cambodia and Uncle Châu to Central VN, and then to the North of Vietnam. In February, 2010, Uncle Chau was chased out of his work. Now it is clear to me the reason why uncle Hoa want to get rid of "Cái tròng", (similar to a yoke, collar or noose). A few months later, after careful and deep thinking, Uncle Hoa sacrificed his place of being a worker to ring the bell for the safety of the flock. Uncles Châu and Hoa didn’t stay much time in Saigon. The house was closed very often. Châu sent the key to a young Friend for checking in the house some time.


Uncles Châu and Hoa’s registered family book was at this house with the government till now. The address of the Friends and Workers Fellowship Christian Mission in Vietnam is registered at that address also. That is one more reason Uncle Châu refused to allow the house to be sold. It’s very important in Vietnam that every citizen be able to prove where they are with the government. And that’s why there was a rumor “Uncle Châu has a house while being a Worker.”

In early 2009, when Uncle Châu had some spare time, he returned to Saigon to repair the house, in order that some Friends from the countryside could stay there. They were students and civil services, and had to rent a small room at a very expensive price. Some young Friends helped him, including Mr. Mãnh (DiLinh Elder). They all worked together for Châu very good desire. Everything was done to the joy of friends. On the day Uncle Châu had to be back to the North for his laboring, my father and Elder Mãnh were there to say goodbye to him. Darrel also came and uttered, “This house has to sell!” Trouble begins!

The following details concern the transfer of ownership of a house owned by Châu’s brother Vũ Trung Hiền to Xuân Hoàn and Nguyễn Minh Thanh.

Darrel failed to properly research this matter. He acted on assumptions or hearsay, and the result was disaster and the fallout continues until this day. He erroneously believed that the house was owned by Châu, when in fact it was owned by Châu’s brother Vũ Trung Hiềnwho lives in America. Darrel also mistakenly thought Châu was giving the house to Xuân Hoàn and Minh Thanh as a gift, when they were actually buying the house. As a result of Darrel not verifying the facts surrounding the ownership and the sale of the home, he caused much pain, hurt, grief, separation, betrayal and loss to the church. Ultimately, Darrel caused and is responsible for the Division of the Friends and Workers in Vietnam.

We agreed to buy the house. Immediately I phoned to Uncle Châu in Hanoi. He felt very happy for us to buy the house for many reasons. With Darrel’s permission, we bought an air plane ticket for Uncle Châu to come back to Saigon for a discussion. We really wanted to buy Mr Hiền’s house, but we didn’t have enough money yet. (Remember Mr. Hiền is Uncle Châu’s youngest brother, and he is the real owner of the house.)

There were three obstacles to overcome before Xuân Hoàn and Minh Thanh could buy Mr. Hiền’s house. (1) They had entered into a 3-year contract to rent the home they were living in, and only two months had passed. The penalty for breaking the rental contract was $2,500 USD. They needed to wait until the contracted ended. (2) They had to sell their house in Dalat in order to have enough money to buy Uncle Châu brother’s house. This would take time. (3) They needed to earn additional money to purchase the house. It was decided that the Friends would stay in the house as Châu had agreed and after three years, Hoàn and Minh Thanh would purchase the house.

Suddenly, Darrel made an appointment to meet with us. We five were sitting together: Darrel, Colin Brodie, Châu, Hoàn and Minh Thanh. Darrel started the conversation by looking at me (MT) and asked the question: “How do you feel, when receiving a gift from a Worker worth $80,000 USD?

We were all shocked with Darrel’s question. We didn’t know why he asked that question. It wasn’t Uncle Châu’s house, so how could he give it to me? While we were still sitting there surprised, Darrel continued, “This morning I searched the internet and saw the price of selling the house is $80,000 USD.” Uncle Châu had never made us a price (maybe he waited for his brother’s decision?) But Darrel had already searched and announced the price in a strange way.

I explained to him that we invited Uncle Châu back here to discuss buying the house-- not to receive a gift. We would never take the house as a gift for we didn’t want our children being made a sinner in case they would sell the house when we passed away. There were four reasons that we wanted to buy the house:

1. I was tired of moving house to house, since we moved from Dalat to Saigon.
2. I wanted to live near my parents, so I could look after them because they are getting old.
3. We wanted to keep the registered family book for Châu and Hoa, so they could continue stay there with us any time they returned to Saigon.
4. Two big families (Vu & Nguyễn) have held a close relationship for more than 50 years. My grandmother was a friend of Uncle Châu’s parents. His brothers and sisters were also my parents’ friends, and now Uncle Châu’s nieces have become members of the Nguyễn’s family. One is Mr. Hiền’s daughter. So we wanted to buy this house so we would have the opportunity to welcome them whenever they (Châu’s relatives) came back to VN for visiting.

Later we and many young Friends had a gathering for singing before Uncle Châu left to go to Hanoi again. He made an announcement to more than 20 friends that: “Hoàn and Minh Thanh are the first candidates to offer to buy this house.” Uncle Châu also permitted some Friends to move in and stay there for three years as we had discussed.

Unfortunately, things did not go as smoothly as we wished. When Uncle Châu went back to Hanoi, the Sister Workers came and ordered the Friends out, “No one can stay here.” They prevented the Friends from coming in to stay (maybe Darrel's orders?) While the two Sister Workers were in the South, there was an email sent to Uncle Châu’s inbox that gave him a very bad headache. It s aid: “Please don’t sell the house to Hoàn and Thanh because it should wait until three years.” (Because of this email, we didn’t continue to buy that house). There was another couple who wanted to buy the house for their younger sister (the wife is my relative too). From that time we didn’t mind anything happening to the house.

When Uncle Hoa returned from Cambodia, he was terribly sad to inform to Uncle Châu who was in China that the Friend who wanted to buy the house had moved out everything in the house, and many papers and precious belongings were lost. This was very sad to our local Workers. We had no idea why this was done. They had asked Uncle Châu for permission to come in and they hadn’t even paid any money yet. That was the first reason Uncle Châu no longer wanted to sell the house to them. Uncle Châu warned them, ‘Don’t touch any things belonging to Uncle Hoa.’

After the Special Meeting, we invited Uncle Châu to stay with us for a few days. At this time, he had been 42 years in the field. We were going to have a meal for family only and Uncle Châu. We were thankful to God for keeping him faithful in the work of God. This was also the day our landlady of the house we were renting informed us that she would like to take the house back and she would compensate us as in the contract. I felt terribly sad and worried. Uncle Châu was there and witnessed everything happening to us. We had to accept the compensation money, but it made me tired to think of moving again!

Seeing and understanding the situation, Uncle Châu said they should buy his brother’s house. Minh Thanh refused because she didn’t want to dispute with her relatives, so Uncle Châu offered to phone and explain the situation to them.

Every thing would have been OK if the Workers had not interfered in the business--especially the Sister Workers! Of course, the Sister Workers would not have been doing anything wrong if the bad stories had not been started by Darrel. He not only started bad rumors with his staff but also to the Elders. And they believed him because he was an Overseer. The Workers caused many problems and made up many bad stories about Uncle Châu. They wanted to smear Uncle Châu and in doing so they also caused a family much unhappiness by spreading the lie that Uncle Châu had particular love with someone which caused their husband to be upset.

We asked for a Meeting with us, Uncle Châu and my relative. We had asked Nhung (a Vietnamese Sister Friend), Darrel and even an Overseer to please come and solve the problem as the Bible teaches. ‘ If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.’
(Mathew 18:15-17)

My relative came to me and told me that from the bottom of her heart she wasn’t sad with us; that Darrel and the Sister Workers had said there was problem. It wasn’t her saying so. Even though we asked them to have the gathering to solve the problem, they never would hold a gathering as we asked! They didn’t want to obey the teaching in the Bible. Here you see the problem was caused by the Workers! Darrel with his staff came and questioned us many times in order to discourage us to not buy the house. However, we continued buying the house, in spite of whether Darrel agreed or not. It wasn’t his house! 



A Buyer for Hoàn & Minh Thanh’s House in Dalat

For 20 years we lived in Dalat, a small city 300 km far from Saigon, which is in the highlands with mountains, lakes, waterfalls, flowers…and the weather is cool throughout the year. People often come to Dalat for their honeymoon. Our honeymoon a little longer…25 years! Our children were born and raised there until we moved to Saigon. We still kept the house for a couple Friends to live in, and we welcomed Friends and Workers to come and stay there also.

We didn’t have enough money to buy Mr. Hiền’s house in Saigon, so we had to sell our house in Dalat. I had asked my relatives and friends to buy it, but no one wanted. At last I put an advertisement in the newspaper for selling.

Hearing the trouble that had come to Uncle Châu, a Sister Friend in Phu Quoc Island, Mrs. Mai, wanted to meet with him. They had an appointment to meet at our house. While waiting for Uncle Châu, we were talking together (my husband, the Sister Friend and me), about out plans to sell our house in Dalat.

Mrs. Mai surprised us by saying she would like buy to our house.
I was very surprised and happy that she wanted to buy our house.  We had no idea she would want to do this. We had hoped to sell to Friends so we could have a short visit to the house whenever we returned to Dalat. The reason Mrs. Mai gave for wanting to buy our house was: “So the Workers could stay there . That was the useful house for many years. I want to offer that house to God for the work in VN. Friends could stay there sometimes if they need to restore their health too.”We reached an agreement and only the three of us knew anything about it. We took the house off the market.

Hoàn and Minh Thanh moved into Mr. Vu Hiền’s house on September 2, 2009 and totally remodeled it. They signed the contract three months later on December 3, 2009 and paid a down payment to Mr. Vu Hiền.


Darrell puts out of the work the Oldest Vietnamese Sister Worker, Miss Mai Hoa

While Darrel was the Overseer, a lovely Sister native Worker, Miss Mai Hoa, met with a lot of trouble with her companions. She is the oldest Vietnamese Sister Worker now. She still respects our two native Workers as before, and never has there been a word of criticism come from her mouth. We all still love and respect her as ever. But she is very afraid to meet us--even by accident, or to take our phone calls when her companion is there beside her! She is in her late sixties now.

One time she and her younger companion disagreed. The younger Worker reported the matter to Darrel at my relative’s house. She thought that the landlord couldn't understand her; however, the daughter in that family heard and understood all the details.

We were very disappointed when Darrel made Miss Mai Hoa leave the work after that. After two years she was restored to the work and now she is under the control of her younger companion, the same as Uncle Châu is. This is a shame for both of them.


Workers Interfere with House Sale in Dalat

While Uncle Hoa was leading a secluded life at our house in Dalat, there were three Overseers from Philippines Korea and Pakistan who came to “solve the problem,” and Cường, a Vietnamese young Brother Worker always translates for them.Two times my family was especially glad to receive these three Overseers who knew my family was closely connected with the two local Workers, Uncles Châu and Hoa.

One time we were talking, and Uncle Jim Girton,
(Philippine Overseer) asked me about Uncle Hoa. Uncle Jim was very gentle and had come to Vietnam during the Golden Time. He valued the mindset of God’s people. Respecting him, I sincerely told him about the house in Dalat, and that I considered it to be a wonderful thing that God had made provision for Uncle Hoa. At that time Mrs. Mai and us had agreed with each other but we hadn’t exchanged any money for the sale of the house in Dalat. We didn’t plan to let others know until all was done. After we finished talking, Uncle Jim was very glad, and said that he worried for Uncle Hoa and now he was calm and happy. Now besides the three of us (Sister Mai, my husband and I), the four Workers also knew about the house reserved for Workers.

A short time after these Overseers returned to their countries, we received a phone call from Mrs. Mai at Phu Quốc island saying, “I don’t know why the two Sister Workers coming to our house and asked if I was forced to buy the house in Dalat. These Workers tried to persuade me not buying the house too. I felt tired and didn't want to talk with them.”When Mrs. Mai asked me how the Workers knew she had wanted to buy the house, I remembered that Cường came to visit with the three Overseers. Cường is the Vietnamese Worker who was Darrel’s companion and right arm. He is very knowledgeable of IT, computers and speaks and translates English. Things became more entangled.

I didn’t know why or who sent these Sister Workers to interfere in selling and buying our house. My daughter was outraged and wanted to take the Workers to court.
Even the Overseer didn’t want her to buy our house. I asked Mrs Mai three times if she was sure she wanted to do this, and she still kept her will to buy the house for the Workers and Mrs Mai’s husband also wanted to buy our house. And they did.

We had invited two young Sister Workers in my field (Anne M. & Van) to come for a meal in order to explain to them what was happening with us. It was hard for them to believe the complicated problem caused by the Workers. Anne is a very nice young Sister Worker from Canada. She has a very good relationship with the F&Ws. Previously, we had only heard Mrs. Mai’s side, so Anne called Miss E.M. so we could talk with her. My daughter had the conversation with Miss E.M and we and Workers witnessed it (Anne M. and her companion).

My daughter said to Miss E.M, “Mrs. Mai came to my parents’ house for visiting and wanted to buy the house by her own will. Why did you give the advice to Mrs. Mai to not buy our house in Dalat? With the Vietnamese law, we can bring to court anyone who interferes into other business and causes a problem.” Surprisingly, Miss E.M answered, “I didn’t know that she came to Saigon! It was not me who gave the advice. My young Vietnamese companion gave the advice to her because she knew the Vietnamese law.” My daughter asked to talk to the Vietnamese companion. Miss E.M. said she was not there.

Anne M. then asked me, “Now, who do you believe?” I answered, “The person who is supposed to be worthy of my trust, didn’t make me trust her!” So the Workers in my field went home without providing any solution or help.
Anne M. feared to become involved in the Overseer’s work. She emailed to me that “I’m just a young Sister, a new one in VN, so I can’t help you with any advice. Please talk to the Brother (Overseer) about your problem!”

That afternoon and evening, Mrs. Mai and I both received many telephone calls and messages from Miss E.M in order to justify…even after we had gone to sleep! We were very disappointed in these Workers. They didn’t go out to seek the lost sheep (like Uncle Hoa), and interfered with private, material things of others. It made us doubt whether they were true Workers of God.

Although the Workers tried very hard to prevent Uncle Hoa from having a convenient place to stay, they were not successful.

My husband had a stroke two days later, and that was just the beginning of many bad things that would happen later
. (Year 2010)


Events of December, 2009

At the Convention at Singapore in December, 2009, Darrel and Morris asked Uncle Châu ‘Do you want to continue in the work or not?’ The answer just ‘Crying.’ Three months later, they would chase him out and make up many bad stories about him.

On 3rd December 2009, when Uncle Châu came back to Saigon from the Singapore Convention, we and Uncle Châu (represented for his brother) signed the contract agreeing to the selling and buying before the government office with the price $80,000 USD. We had moved into the house on 2 nd of September 2009. We had to repair the house completely, because our Uncles lived too simply. On August 28, 2012, after we paid him all the money, Mr. Hiền sent an email to us and also to the Vu’ family members.
(View email in Appendix)

The large Elders Meeting was held in March, 2010, three months AFTER the contract was entered into. This was the Meeting where they suspended Châu from the work because the house supposedly wasn’t sold. (View Contract in Appendix)

Since September 9, 2009 my husband and I have lived between two of Uncle Châu’s nieces’ houses (The Vu family).
There are four houses belong to Vu' family stand successively. As I had said, our two families have had long relationship since the time in Protestant church. We came to these houses many times for singing and seeing Mr. Hiền's children grow up. Our house at 19 cx Trần Quang Diệu- Ward 14 -Distr 3 - Saigon is still the registered address for the “Christian Mission in Vietnam” church, and also the registered family book of Uncles Châu and Hoa. Sometimes policeman come to our house to ask about Uncle Hoa and Châu because their registered family book is at our house.


2010 Elders Meeting Expelling Châu

Dale Shultz, Overseer of the Western Alliance, came for two weeks to help resolve the problems. It was arranged that Tsutomu Miyata (Overseer of Japan) and Simeon Sarmiento (Philippines/Indonesia) would be with Dale during the first week of his trip.

Dale wrote in a summary explanation of his VN visit: We visited with the local men Teachers (including Hoa) concerning Châu. Tsutomu, Simeon and I then visited with Châu. We found Châu quite open to direction and help and we discussed the problem areas that had been presented to us. Later, Darrel, Morris and Hoa were added to the discussion group and a good spirit prevailed in our visiting together…We all were concerned that the very best results could be realized for the Teachers and Students in your country and for Châu's future as well. (View Letter in Appendix)

In March, 2010, all the Elders from many provinces and areas went to Saigon for the Elders Meeting. Also present were all the Workers in the country (except Châu), along with Dale Shultz, Tsutomu Miyata and Simeon Sarmiento.

The three visiting Workers spoke in the Meeting. They all praised Uncle Châu saying that he was a lovely, friendly and humble Worker. Then they declared "Châu is not in the work anymore.” He had to leave the work for “solving the selling of the house.”From that time he wasn’t allowed to have any activities in the church, not even leading the Meeting. The Friends all fell down in pain. The truth was that the “solving of the selling of the house” had already been solved. The house had sold three months earlier!

Right after they finished their announcement, my husband stood up immediately. Brother Mãnh stood up successively.  But Darrel prevented both of them from speaking. This was because they knew for certain that it was A LIE. The paperwork relating to the selling of the house had been completed on December 3, 2009. We had owned the house since that time. This Elders Meeting was held three months later. Uncles Dale and Darrel had just told an outright lie to all the Friends and Workers and guest Workers! (Tsutomu Miyata, Simeon Sarmiento). We were stunned!

Sadly many Workers and Friends believed the lie because it came from the Overseers! They not only believed it, but showing their true colors, they also tried to find other things against our local Workers!  We were all very sad that we couldn't speak out, so we prayed earnestly to our Lord. The F&W’s chose various ways to deal with the Workers according to their feelings! We wrote a lot of letters to ask them to make everything right, but it was hopeless!

We gave Mr. Manh, the Elder in DiLinh, the evidence to read. He said ‘Trăm nghe không bằng một thấy’ (One time of seeing equal to one hundred times of hearing).  The day after the Elders Meeting, Mr. Manh returned to DiLinh (about 200Km far from Saigon). All w ho had ever met him would agree that he is an Elder as if a Worker. He told the bad news to the Friends there. They all shed tears and decided not to welcome the foreign Workers any more, because of their deceit to the church in driving Uncle Châu out with a lie.

Nothing in their reasons for putting Châu out of the ministry concerned the spiritual! They refused to let us to ask Uncle Châu to lead the Meeting, even when there weren’t any other Workers in the Meeting. Darrel and his staff considered Uncle Châu not worthy and a lay member, like us Friends. At that time there were some Workers who phoned Uncle Châu while he stayed at our house to apologize to him for their leading the Meeting with the presence of Uncle Châu. They knew that Uncle Châu was more worthy to lead the Meeting than they were.

In the following months
, day by day, Darrel exposed his malice. Stopping the work of Uncle Châu to “solve the selling of the house” was a lie and an excuse. He wanted to expel Uncle Châu permanently and not accept him back into the work. He made up bad stories and told the Elders as if they were true happenings! My family was a victim also, relating to their finding the way to kick out Uncle Châu, even though we had talked, given evidence and ideas to edify many times. They know their wrongs but they don’t want to correct them.

Dale Shultz only stayed in Vietnam for 1-2 weeks. The Canadian Workers couldn't begin to imagine all the opposition they would be facing! Morris G. asked Uncle Châu for help. Uncle Châu phoned the DiLinh Friends from the North, and advised them to welcome the foreign Workers again. NOW, the Workers wanted the Friends to obey Uncle Châu’s advice even though the Friends still disliked the way they were treating our local Workers!

Some Friends obeyed Uncle Châu’s advice and returned to the Workers group because he said “This is The True Way…God will be sad seeing the separation among the Friends if you have the Fellowship with Hoa, and not with other Workers and Friends.”

Uncle Châu had sent a letter to Friends, with advice from a Worker “Let us obey, even when things happening seem not right…” Reading his letter, I felt terrible. Then I remembered Proverbs 14:12: There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; But the end thereof are the ways of death. I replied to him “Only before God is right or wrong; if anything seems not right, I would like to have an explaining to prove… If it’s right, then I will obey.” I haven’t had any answer!

Poor Uncle Châu is torn in four directions with the situation he is facing right now: his family, his Overseer and his staff, the government, and the Golden Friends. What a pity for Uncle Châu.


Châu is Reinstated in the Work

In July, 2010 Châu was permitted to return to the work. With great pleasure Uncle Châu had announced to us Uncle Dale’s decision for him. He could: “ … go back into the field and could choose to labor in Vietnam or USA.” Uncle Châu replied, “I’ll go wherever you arrange for me.”

Dale’s choice was for Châu to go to the USA.Châu was very happy to have a place in the work, and going to USA was a great privilege for him, since there are a lot of Vietnamese friends living in USA, as well as all his immediate family members and other relatives. We were surprised to hear the news from Uncle Darrel’s staff that “Uncle Châu had to go to USA to learn how to labor in the work!”

Uncle Dale hired a lawyer to handle the paperwork for Uncle Châu. The first interview by the USA consulate failed. They tried again. Uncle Châu was directed carefully in detail from an American lawyer. Uncle Châu came to our house to talk on the telephone with the lawyer from the guest room. The second interview failed also. We were happy that he would be staying and laboring in VN, as Uncle Dale had said in the beginning “Where do you want to labor? Vietnam or USA.”

However,
Uncle Dale didn’t allow Uncle Châu back to the work in VN as he had informed Uncle Châu. This was the first time I saw two faces in a matter from Uncle Dale.
Instead Dale sent Uncle Châu to Cambodia: “As you know, Châu has again been reinstated to a teaching role and is helping Lloyd [Morgan] in Cambodia. We are thankful that he has this further opportunity.” Uncle Chau had been out of the work for about 19 months.

Uncle Châu is now in the work under the control of Lyle Shultz. The Workers pushed him out of the country to Cambodia, then to East Timor and then to Australia--while he is needed in VN very much. Some friends visited him in Cambodia, and when they returned they said Uncle Châu couldn't speak Khmer, so he taught English for many young boys and girls and was like a babysitter. His companion is an Australian Worker, Lloyd who is young enough to be Uncle Châu’s son, but Lyle sent Uncle Châu to be under Lloyd's control. This is a shame!

Some Vietnamese friends could visit him, Cambodia has the same border as Vietnam. It is easy for the Friends to visit Uncle Châu in Cambodia since the Vietnamese are free to go to a Southeast Asian country. Very easily just with our passport, the limit according to the nation permitted. Maybe 1, 3, 6 months or 1 year. At the end of the limit we go out then return the day after, we have a new limit.

So they sent Uncle Châu farther away, to East Timor, where they don't speak English--they speak Tetun, a local dialect and Portuguese. This country allows visa only 6 months. East Timor is an incredibly poor country not too far from Darwin in northern Australia. It was originally occupied by the Portuguese. East Timor has not had 2x2 Workers but in the past 2 to 3 years Ian Taylor from South Australia has gone there and is learning Tetun, the local language. Prior to Ian's arrival there have been no professing folk in East Timor. The country has a Roman Catholic heritage and there are a number of Bible based churches there. It would be a very difficult environment for Uncle Châu in East Timor.

Before going to East Timor, Uncle Châu visited our DiLinh Friends with Doctor Trung, an Elder. Châu gave them many advice in tears, but he couldn't change their mind. They loved Uncle Châu so much, but they couldn't put their souls under the leading of an Overseer without the love, honesty, compassion and image of Jesus Christ.

After 6 months in East Timor, Lyle Schultz sent Uncle Châu to Australia on a Convention tour there. However, he was absent too long from VN, and the policeman asked him to return. In January, 2014, he returned to Vietnam and Lyle Shutlz planned for him to go to Cambodia again. However, the VN government saw differently and Uncle Châu was required to stay in VN. In out country we have an idiom: "Mưu sự tại nhân, thành sự tại thiên": Man proposes, God disposes.


2010 - The Workers Meeting; Uncle Hoa Resigns and Sends his Heart Letter

Six months after the Elders Meeting announcing Uncle Châu was no longer a Worker, it was Special Meeting time. Darrel had a big box fixed behind every Worker’s motorbike. The box was too clumsy for Uncle Hoa to use since he is so small, so he removed it. Darrel scolded him in front of many Friends and Workers and ordered him to reinstall it. This was just one incident when Darrel publicly shamed Uncle Hoa and flaunted his power over trivial matters regarding Uncles Hoa and Châu.

It was in the middle of the year 2010 after the Special Meeting that Uncle Hoa decided to leave. He was going to visit Friends and preach the Gospel to the lost around the country. He didn’t take part in any Conventions or Special Meetings. When Uncle Hoa phoned us to explain his decision to not continue to labor as before, we were horrified and cried. When we told Uncle Châu, he phoned Uncle Hoa and just said, “May God be with you.” When Uncle Hoa decided to release cái tròng (similar to a yoke, collar or noose), it was a great shock to Darrel and his staff. Everything was in an upheaval, and no one knew where it would go!

When he resigned from being in the Worker’s organisation in 2010, Uncle Hoa was 70 years old and had been in the Work for 43 years, since 1967.

Uncle Hoa wrote: For many years, I had been putting up with their running things in the VN church. More and more I could see human nature in their manner. Rules and regulations which weaken the spiritual health. Especially, the discrimination spirit (which never be of God), a nasty attitude similar to Isaiah 47:8 & 10. (I am, no one else besides me) and so on. As long as I tried keep up with them, my conscience bothered me. I could see that I was only wasting my precious time while I tried to keep good company with them. Doing so, I was only serving man's organisation, not of God at all.

As years go by, the more I meditate on Jesus's words the more I could see that only the narrow minded and dictatorate would claim kingdom of God for oneself and for no one else. Especially to declare that all those who don't belong to their group to go to hell. That sounds laughable to VN people. Those who claim that only their group would go to Heaven and all others who not belong to them would go to Hell, I am sure that there is something wrong in their mind, if we avoid to say that they are too much of extremistic.  Thru the years Darrel has been sick and had to take medicaments on & on; yet he did not recognise the phisical weakness effecting his mind and spirit. One time I talked to him about how the bodily sickness could affect the mind and spirit, but he rejected it. So he did not get any benefit from those mistakes that he had made.

The reason Uncle Hoa decided to stop cooperating with the Overseers in VN was because he “had suggested something but they put it aside. How can I cooperate with them if they never mind with any suggestions of mine? For example I suggested “Don’t organize the Special Meeting at Hoi An, but Darrel still kept it. It costs a lot of money for Workers to be there, and there are no professing folks in Hoi An.”

Minh Thanh wrote: Uncle Hoa disagreed with the way Canadian Overseers spent the money for these activities. It was not suitable for our poor country. Uncle Hoa explained that the Workers, including visiting Workers, had to fly to DaNang, then hire a van to Hoi An, and stay at a Hotel. This wastes lots of time and money—for a very few Friends who live near there. Very often there are more Workers than Friends at the Special Meeting at Hoi An! Even though Workers have been there for years, no one has ever professed. Hoi An is an ancient city and most people worship their ancestors. It also the special place for tourists with beaches and many resorts. The Workers also gather at Hoi An for a Workers Meetings and have meals in luxury restaurants there.

According to what Uncle Lyle told me, Overseers and Workers around the world are praising Uncle Darrel’s work, for bringing a lot of young people to be workers.  To me, that is just like giving money to the young Workers so they can enjoy luxury. If they were not accepted to become a Worker they would never have chance to enjoy such high living style as that. Of course, a lot of young folks want to be Workers.
With a staff of abundant of workers, and they live with high level of living so they depend on the money of Overseers. If they live the simple life such as the staff of Uncle Fred, there is no problem. Xuân Hoàn said , “This is the Overseers way, not God’s Way.”

Minh Thanh wrote: Uncle Hoa had fit in under the new oversight for years and went to any place they pointed for him to go. Never had any mistakes under their rule, such as stepping into other fields. When the arrangement was still good in Viet Nam, he completely submitted to their rule. Uncle Hoa always wanted to be a help with God's work. But he saw that the wrong that was happening was not under the Spirit of God's leading, especially what Darrel said to his staff in the Workers Meeting. When he saw what was happening with Uncle Châu, thenUncle Hoa knew for sure that it would be his turn next and they would do the same to him. From that Meeting, Uncle Hoa determined to stop cooperating with Darrel. So he stood up to get rid of the noose from his neck so he could freely labour as he should. 

Uncle Hoa left feeling no shame and stopped cooperating with the Canadian Workers. I asked Uncle Hoa if I might post his Heart Letter on the TMB Message Board and also send it to Cherie as she requested. He agreed and said, ‘Say hello to Cherie and thanks for her hard work.’ He said to tell Cherie that he had read her website five years ago, and that her writing helped him to decide to leave for seeing things happening in VN just the same as many things she had written

Uncle Hoa wrote: Sometime before 2010, Darrel Turner wanted to inform something to his staff. He posted the information to a website where each worker had a password to access that website. One time I tried to enter that website by googling the word ‘workers’ and I accidently discovered a lot of other websites regarding 2x2 church. Some websites gave many good points of 2x2 and others revealed new things to me, but I wasn't shaken at that time. I thought, ‘Sometimes the prince inherits the throne but he can be naughty.’ So the church can be corrupt but the worship depends on the spirit and heart. Eventually I found the website Telling The Truth. So I knew about the TTT website, thanks to Darrel Turner.

On August 26, 2010 Uncle Hoa wrote his Heart Letter to every dear brother and sister.” He wrote the Friends that he cherished their friendship and fellowship and wanted to let them know about his decision and his future plans and intentions. Uncle Hoa wrote: My heart-letter was sent by Xuân Hoàn and Minh Thanh as they have wifi in their house so they help sending to those in DT's staff, as well as friends they could reach. Some months later, Châu asked me to write to other Overseers who were involved in pushing Châu off from the work.

Uncle Hoa saw Darrel continue to blame Uncle Châu in the Workers Meeting after Special Meeting time. Uncle Hoa resigned to avoid being put out of the work as Châu had been. He removed himself from the Overseer’s control and system since he couldn’t in good conscience cooperate with their methods. He continued to offer his life to encourage and strengthen their souls and to help others who are in need and he planned to do so to the end of his life. Uncle Hoa gave permission to print his “Heart Letter” with this Account. (View Heart Letter in Appendix).

Uncle Hoa asked us to send his “Heart Letter” to everybody after he left as he would not be in contact with anyone for a brief period of time. Remembering the Sister Friend had the purpose of buying our house, God had poured comfort into my heart, that God knows all. He knows His servants’ needs and reserved a place for Uncle Hoa.I had explained to Uncle Hoa our discussion with Mrs. Mai (the lady who wanted to buy our house) just one month before. Already the house was offered for God’s work and for the Workers to live in. We were very pleased when Uncle Hoa agreed to stay in the offered house.


The Death of Joseph Story (Colin Brodie)

There was a Canadian Worker named Colin Brodie who witnessed many things happening. We did appreciate him, he was a godly Worker, we learnt a lot from him, and he gave us many good advice too. After many things happened, he returned to Canada. I asked Uncle Hoa the reason why? Uncle Hoa replied, "Darrel said Colin is a bull-headed person." At that time, Uncle Hoa accompanied Darrel and Cường. After that, Darrel and Morris returned to Canada.

When Colin returned to VN, we welcomed him at the airport. His first saying with us was, "I didn't think that I would have the chance to come back to VN. I'm very happy to be here again." He accompanied Uncle Lyle to our house sometimes to hear and solve some problems. This time he didn't say a word... just listened and wrote down (I didn't know what for?) He preached that day.

I was taking my daughter in law to Gospel Meeting at my younger sister’s house. After Uncle Lyle spoke, it was Colin’s turn. His message was about Jesus’ life. That Jesus is the key to open the door for us; through His life we can enter the Kingdom of God. If we want to make one more key, we have to do every detail exactly, or we cannot open the door. Today, we are His Workers, and we have to follow exactly like Jesus' life in order to help others enter the Kingdom of God. He read Mark 3:33: "A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, ‘ Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.’Do you know the reason why His mother and brothers were looking for him? It must have been a very important and serious reason, such as Joseph died. Although His mother and brothers came and informed Jesus the sad news of Joseph passing away, Jesus still continued in His preaching, not returning home. Lyle S. here was the same as Jesus. Although his mother passed away some months ago, he was still here continuing with his preaching and had not returned home.

The day after was Monday, we were very surprised with a visit from an Elder named Thinh who for a long time didn't want to come into our house, because Darrel told him many made up stories about us. (We had a very nice relationship before.) This man has two younger sisters and one cousin in the work, and a Fellowship Meeting in his home too. We didn't know the reason why he came. He had been though some very sad and serious problems and remembered us. He came and told us about the hard experience he was facing with these Workers! He asked my husband to record all his telling and showing as evidence in case he passes away. My husband still keeps it.

Through his talking we also learned that Cường his cousin (Vietnamese Brother Worker) was back to the North a few days ago to attend his (Cường) grandmother's funeral! Immediately God showed us that the message given by Colin was wrong. Cường couldn't have gone back to the North without the Workers’ permission (while he was staying with them). With us, it doesn't matter that Cường returned to his grandmother's funeral. What bothers us is: Why did they know this, yet they still preached ‘Today, we are exactly like Jesus, not returning home even though Joseph had passed away?’

NOTE: There are no details recorded in the Vietnamese Bible or KJV Bible about Joseph’s death. Also there is no reason given in the Bible as to why Jesus’ mother and brothers were looking for him (Mark 3:33).


Elders’ List of Questions

Several Elders gathered together and prepared a letter that contained a list of their questions, observations and supplications. The Elders’ letter began like this:

We, God’s children belonging to churches scattered in the country of Vietnam, unanimously have the same voice to God’s Workers about God’s Work in Vietnam. First of all we want to show our gratitude to God’s Workers for spending their life to labour for God, especially those who have left their prosperous countries to come to Vietnam. Recent years, we have seen and heard some things from Brother Darrel (Overseer) and other Workers. We would mention them below. We wish our Workers to answer us in order that we can understand clearly, we are very grateful.

Part 1 The Things we want to ask
Part II The things we have seen
Part III Supplication

(View 3-page List in Appendix)


2011 - Lyle Shultz becomes the Overseer of Vietnam

The situation continued to get worse and worse. Dale Shultz sent his brother Lyle to take Darrel’s place and bring peace and unity. Darrel was no longer in charge once Uncle Lyle came, so we didn’t ask Darrel any more questions. In the past our workers had freedom to go anywhere under the Spirit of God leading, by the urge in their heart. Now they had to stay at the places Uncle Lyle appointed for them. Uncle Hoa told us he felt it was wasting his time for he was spending most of his time at the bach, waiting to preach two days in a week, Sunday and Wednesday). It is hard for the Vietnamese workers now trying to follow Jesus as written in the Bible.

Uncle Lyle asked uncle Châu to visit Friends in the field he appointed. When Uncle Châu went to visit another place with some Friends, Uncle Lyle got angry with him. They sent Uncle Châu to Cambodia, East Timor and Australia, while sending many foreign Workers to Vietnam.

Dale Shultz wrote in his summary letter: …the decision was made by the Overseers closer to your land that Jim Girton, Keith Olsen and Jiwhan Yu would visit your country to try to sort out the problem that was there and hopefully come up with a plan that would work towards a solution. It was during their visit to your land that my brother, Lyle, was approached concerning coming to your country to help. Since that time, Lyle, Lloyd Morgan, Jim Girton, Ernest Robinson, Keith Olsen (until he passed away) and Jiwhan Yu have included me in much of the communication concerning events and issues in your country.

MT: On Oct 27, 2011 at my parent’s house, we had a visit with Uncle Jim Girton (Philippine Overseer) who was leaving that night, as well as Uncle Châu (before he went to Cambodia), and Uncle Lyle (going back to India on Dec 15, 2011). Uncle Lyle promised us, “I will gather the Friends together and answer all the questions when I come back from India in January, 2012.” We were all happy with Uncle Lyle’s promise. My brother-in-law recorded his promise in his diary book.

Uncle Lyle returned Dec. 27, 2011. We waited and waited, but there never was a gathering or any answers. My older sister and her husband reminded Uncle Lyle that this matter was important to the Friends, and asked him to please don’t drop this matter.  Instead Uncle Lyle asked his staff to go to their fields and give the answers to those who wanted. (It seemed that this way they could find out which Friends don’t agree with them.)  My sister and her husband are still in their Fellowship and wish Uncle Lyle hadn’t broken his promise.

Mr. Bau wrote: At first Lyle Shultz was welcomed because he said he came to restore the unity and peace.  However, day by day we didn’t see anything as he promised and his actions revealed that he wanted to conceal the wrong doings of Darrel and he only made the division more and more severe!! Sad to say, Lyle created even more problems! We had the feeling Lyle came here to defend his nation, and not for God’s Kingdom. We wanted him to come here to help not to rule!

Minh Thanh wrote: We talked with Uncle Lyle, opening everything for him to understand, because we did so hope he would take over all the matters, in order he could resolve the situation, and restore the unity. The Friends asked Uncle Lyle in a letter, thinking Uncle Lyle was in charge of resolving the problems.

We asked many times for a gathering as they have arranged at the time they declared Uncle Châu out, for this happening to clear all the misunderstanding according to the teaching of Jesus in Bible. To Darrel, to Overseers from others countries, and then to Lyle S… they all knew we wanted a gathering. We had been in contact with them many times, by many ways, through last three years. We even asked them to call Uncle Châu back, and to cooperate with him to solve the problem, because Uncle Châu knew his sheep far better than these Overseers. But they never wanted to do the simple way as Jesus has taught in the Bible. We emailed Uncle Lyle on March 2012: “We would like to beg you for the peace of the fold of God to cooperate together to carry the load of God’ work. It’s advisory that a Vietnamese Worker shares the leading with you since only a Vietnamese will understand more clearly Vietnamese people.”

Sadly, right after his return, at the convention in December 2012, Uncle Lyle admonished Uncle Châu in front of his staff for the content of an email Uncle Châu had sent to Thịnh, the brother of two sister workers. After that, some of the young Workers looked at him through strange eyes. Even though Uncle Châu was in the work at that time, some young Workers continued to find fault with him in an effort to push him out again.  

Uncle Châu asked my husband, a former IT Instructor, how Uncle Lyle could have received a copy of his private email. My husband replied that Cường (a young Vietnamese Brother Worker) had learned IT and that he must have fraudulently configured his cousin's computer so that all emails sent from Uncle Châu would automatically be forwarded to his Inbox. Then these emails were kept in Uncle Lyle's black list.

Châu was on a Convention tour in Australia in 2013. When giving his testimony in Australia, he mentioned a couple of times the need to “obey them that have rule over you.” Suggested reading: Obey Them - Wicked Sheperds

Link to SE Asia Workers Photo

Vietnam - Home

Vietnam Split Intro

Vietnam Split Ch1

Vietnam Split Ch2

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